5 ms·

There is no longer any freedom of speech in the UK.

by jscipione 4y ago

zimpenfish 4y ago
> There is no longer any freedom of speech in the UK. Where was it ever guaranteed in the first place?
- switch007 4y ago
  I don't think so. But there can be de facto freedom speech.
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  No.
mnd999 4y ago
Im my experience most people that complain about free speech are, like the guy in the article, wanting to use it to be an asshole. As such, it’s hard to have much sympathy for them. I’m certainly not going to stand up for his right to share homophobic nazi propaganda.
- proffeatur8 4y ago
  What has more in common with nazis? 1) Cancel culture, pronoun politics, militarized political correctness 2) retweeting a meme that highlights the connection those things have with nazis
  - krapp 4y ago
    2. Cancel culture is mostly concerned with giving a voice and power to the set of marginalized groups that the Nazis despised. The Nazis could not have cared less about pronouns and would have murdered trans people on sight, and they were anything but politically correct for the time, which is why the world went to war against them. Meanwhile, they would easily have retweeted a meme (in other words, engaged in propaganda) meant to disparage and slander homosexuals, although obviously they wouldn't not have associated homosexuality with Nazism or used the Swastika, as they considered homosexuality to be abhorrent. They most likely would have used a Star of David or other Jewish symbol instead.
    - proffeatur8 4y ago
      The key pattern is control. The nazis were control freaks. All information channels (not just electronic, but also behavioral) were policed, and any information passing through those channels had to be authorized by the authorities. Memes become popular through a bottom-up process. An image resonates with you and you share it with your network. The LGBT movement (an entity separate from homosexuality itself) is not currently a bottom-up phenomenon. It’s subsidized and utilized by the world’s largest corporations, the largest media, the largest non-profits and nearly all western governments to push all kinds of agendas that appear to a great many of us as authoritarian and dangerous.
  - mock-possum 4y ago
    I mean the second one, obviously? so much of the ways that nazis justified their evil acts were by making the jews out to be their oppressors, and the secret controllers of 'woke' politics of the time. it was a reactionary ideology then, and it's a reactionary ideology now. when you cast yourself as 'the real victim' and use it as an excuse to mistreat a historically oppressed segment of society... yeah man, I see a lot in common with the nazis there, particularly in the realm of a group of people united by what they believe, fighting to hurt a group of people united by who they are.
    - proffeatur8 4y ago
      The nazis policed behavior. Modern critics of LGBT aren’t trying to police behavior, we’re pointing out that the entity LGBT (and all the corporations/governments behind interested in propagating it) is obviously connected to the policing of behavior. There’s a very clear dividing line here. You support free speech (including what you don’t like or consider dangerous) or you don’t. One of those positions is a lot closer to the nazis than it’s proponents understand.
- salawat 4y ago
  Being an asshole, like it or not, should never be elevated to the point of being a crime. I assure you, the moment it is, we might as well tear down prison walls, because we're all guilty from somebody's point of view.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  The only reason we should have free speech is protect speech people don't like. If everyone only said speech everybody else agreed with there would be no reason to have free speech protections. What happens if in the future your opinion on something is considered as bad as homophobia or Nazism?
- sgjohnson 4y ago
  The right to free speech is a right to speech that someome might disagree with, because speech that nobody disagrees with needs no protection whatsoever.
notavalleyman 4y ago
Yeah, this dude getting NFA'd marks the end of the first amendment in the UK. Wait why is everyone frowning at me
- mnd999 4y ago
  First amendement of what?
  - nathanaldensr 4y ago
    notavalleyman, who has trolled this thread several times, is implying through sarcasm that jscipione is explicitly saying there is a First Amendment in the UK.
    - jscipione 4y ago

There is no longer any freedom of speech in the UK.

zimpenfish 4y ago

> There is no longer any freedom of speech in the UK. Where was it ever guaranteed in the first place?

switch007 4y ago
I don't think so. But there can be de facto freedom speech.
sgjohnson 4y ago
No.

mnd999 4y ago

Im my experience most people that complain about free speech are, like the guy in the article, wanting to use it to be an asshole. As such, it’s hard to have much sympathy for them. I’m certainly not going to stand up for his right to share homophobic nazi propaganda.

proffeatur8 4y ago
What has more in common with nazis? 1) Cancel culture, pronoun politics, militarized political correctness 2) retweeting a meme that highlights the connection those things have with nazis
- krapp 4y ago
  2. Cancel culture is mostly concerned with giving a voice and power to the set of marginalized groups that the Nazis despised. The Nazis could not have cared less about pronouns and would have murdered trans people on sight, and they were anything but politically correct for the time, which is why the world went to war against them. Meanwhile, they would easily have retweeted a meme (in other words, engaged in propaganda) meant to disparage and slander homosexuals, although obviously they wouldn't not have associated homosexuality with Nazism or used the Swastika, as they considered homosexuality to be abhorrent. They most likely would have used a Star of David or other Jewish symbol instead.
  - proffeatur8 4y ago
    The key pattern is control. The nazis were control freaks. All information channels (not just electronic, but also behavioral) were policed, and any information passing through those channels had to be authorized by the authorities. Memes become popular through a bottom-up process. An image resonates with you and you share it with your network. The LGBT movement (an entity separate from homosexuality itself) is not currently a bottom-up phenomenon. It’s subsidized and utilized by the world’s largest corporations, the largest media, the largest non-profits and nearly all western governments to push all kinds of agendas that appear to a great many of us as authoritarian and dangerous.
- mock-possum 4y ago
  I mean the second one, obviously? so much of the ways that nazis justified their evil acts were by making the jews out to be their oppressors, and the secret controllers of 'woke' politics of the time. it was a reactionary ideology then, and it's a reactionary ideology now. when you cast yourself as 'the real victim' and use it as an excuse to mistreat a historically oppressed segment of society... yeah man, I see a lot in common with the nazis there, particularly in the realm of a group of people united by what they believe, fighting to hurt a group of people united by who they are.
  - proffeatur8 4y ago
    The nazis policed behavior. Modern critics of LGBT aren’t trying to police behavior, we’re pointing out that the entity LGBT (and all the corporations/governments behind interested in propagating it) is obviously connected to the policing of behavior. There’s a very clear dividing line here. You support free speech (including what you don’t like or consider dangerous) or you don’t. One of those positions is a lot closer to the nazis than it’s proponents understand.
salawat 4y ago
Being an asshole, like it or not, should never be elevated to the point of being a crime. I assure you, the moment it is, we might as well tear down prison walls, because we're all guilty from somebody's point of view.
_-david-_ 4y ago
The only reason we should have free speech is protect speech people don't like. If everyone only said speech everybody else agreed with there would be no reason to have free speech protections. What happens if in the future your opinion on something is considered as bad as homophobia or Nazism?
sgjohnson 4y ago
The right to free speech is a right to speech that someome might disagree with, because speech that nobody disagrees with needs no protection whatsoever.

notavalleyman 4y ago

Yeah, this dude getting NFA'd marks the end of the first amendment in the UK. Wait why is everyone frowning at me

mnd999 4y ago
First amendement of what?
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  notavalleyman, who has trolled this thread several times, is implying through sarcasm that jscipione is explicitly saying there is a First Amendment in the UK.
  - jscipione 4y ago