7 ms·

It's this kind of overreaction by the police that's actually 'radicalizing' people.

by groffee 4y ago

lampshades 4y ago
It needs to radicalize people. This is the beginning of tyranny.
- xdennis 4y ago
  I wouldn't say it's the beginning. There's nothing new about it. Apparently the police have recorded over 100000 incidents of 'non-crime hate crimes'. I like Andrew Doyle quote on this: > In this new woke era, our law enforcement agencies are not content to police crime, but also non-crime. This is a huge relief, because for a long while now too many citizens have been not breaking the law and getting away with it.
  - maxehmookau 4y ago
    Non-hate hate crimes are the latest cause celebre of the GBNews lot. It's their latest grift and HN would do well to see past it.
    - xdennis 4y ago
      I don't agree with being harassed by the police over something that's literally not a crime. But I'm not sure why GBNews would be grifting with it. Conservatives have been in power in the UK for 12 years now and they've done nothing about it.
  - notavalleyman 4y ago
    > the police have recorded over 100000 incidents I just think it's worth rebutting, that the police are not combing twitter for anything borderline. These are complaints that the public are making to the police. There is a relevant law about malicious comms, so the police are obliged to open a case. > this new woke era Give me a break. Members of the public are taxed to provide a police service. If they feel like they're a victim of malicious communications, they're allowed to go to the police. Nothing to do with being "content to police non-crime" or being "woke".
    - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
      >These are complaints that the public are making to the police. There is a relevant law about malicious comms, so the police are obliged to open a case. >Give me a break. Members of the public are taxed to provide a police service. If they feel like they're a victim of malicious communications, they're allowed to go to the police. Nothing to do with being "content to police non-crime" or being "woke". And you act as though that's a good thing? 100k people going through the work of reporting what is likely mostly unfunny boomer memes and thinly veiled trolling is a much stronger indictment of the current state of affairs than 100k instances of bored cops going looking for violations of some broad law from the comfort of their desks.
      - notavalleyman 4y ago
        You don't know that at all. For all you know, 99% are legitimate targeted harassment or part of a larger course of offending behaviour. It's snap uninformed judgements like yours that are the problem, imo
        throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        I might not know but it seems like a very fair default assumption given the history of anti-nuisance laws in meatspace.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
    Police were already enforcing non-crime for a long time. They get called when there are black and brown people in spaces that makes the neighbors nervous. I don’t think police being used as an enforcement mechanism for non-crimes should be critiqued as if it’s a new phenomenon. It’s old and it sucks and it should be critiqued on that.
- Overtonwindow 4y ago
  I would say that tyranny has already begun, we are long past its beginning. It has been a slow creep.
  - dmitryminkovsky 4y ago
    It's as if the standards of what is and what is not acceptable are slowly shifting...
    - Overtonwindow 4y ago
      Touché. Would that not mean in acceptance of the tyranny? I think a large segment of the American public sees that something is wrong, and that the creep has become too much. If anything that might be our saving grace, so I hope we are not trapped in an Overton window.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- ohgodplsno 4y ago
  - bobsmooth 4y ago
    You know, it was only a few decades ago that promoting gay rights was considered obscene speech and illegal. Remember that the laws used to arrest meme posters can also be used to arrest civil rights activists.
  - lampshades 4y ago
    Just take a step back and listen to yourself man.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kelnos 4y ago
  The problem in this case is that the people it's radicalizing are transphobic assholes. I wish someone who didn't suck was responsible for poking at this terrible law.
- felurx 4y ago
  I don't know if radicalization is the right word or the process that should be happening, but there is something important to note here: The radicalization that happens in circles like the one that image comes from, in addition to or instead of the one (I hope) you mean, is not one against undemocratic practices, abuse of power etc. It is one against people who are trans (or queer in general). And that radicalization does harm. It leads to shame and discrimination. It leads to violence. And yes, it _kills_. Please make sure you (and others) know what radicalization you mean, and make sure that the one that is happening is correct.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
bergenty 4y ago
Completely disagree. It’s echo chambers online that are radicalizing people.
- eloisius 4y ago
  Partially true, but this kind of police overreaction is definitely giving the Alex Jones' of the world ammo. When those characters go on about the thought police of the new world order or whatever, it's not without a little truth.
  - bergenty 4y ago
    Those characters will lie if they have to create content. This should not deter people from putting reasonable measures in place.
undersuit 4y ago
"It's not my fault I'm a Nazi, I had to become one to fight the government from cracking down on Nazis."
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  One of the Nazi propaganda moves was to align Jewish people with pedophiles. "Well obviously pedophiles are bad. You wouldn't defend a pedophile! Unless.. you are a pedophile?" Of course you are going to label your opponent in unfavorable terms. But here's the thing - why do you need to? If your opponent is actually a murderer, you don't need to talk them up as a Sig Heiling murderer who hates gay people. You can just be truthful and call them a murderer. If the only offense you have is to slander your opponent... you might be making up the outrage.
  - cloverich 4y ago
    I think you are saying it is bad to equate some undesireable behavior with nazism, because its equivalent to he nazi's equating Jews with Pedophiles, then labeling people as pedophiles to push an agenda. If that's right I think its also relevant in this case the person's tweet was of an actual swastika.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      Is Wikipedia a Nazi organization for having swastikas depicted on their entry? Clearly the meme was not pro-Nazi.
      - undersuit 4y ago
        Are we Nazis for talking about swastikas? What was the meme. Context is key to understanding complex thoughts, even ugly bigoted ones, I'm concerned that you aren't including it. Lawrence Fox is not an LGBT ally in any way, and his tweet and the retweet of this news story were not funny, they were attacks. 'Haha so funny, it's not pro-Nazi, it's just saying other people are Nazis.'

It's this kind of overreaction by the police that's actually 'radicalizing' people.

lampshades 4y ago

It needs to radicalize people. This is the beginning of tyranny.

xdennis 4y ago
I wouldn't say it's the beginning. There's nothing new about it. Apparently the police have recorded over 100000 incidents of 'non-crime hate crimes'. I like Andrew Doyle quote on this: > In this new woke era, our law enforcement agencies are not content to police crime, but also non-crime. This is a huge relief, because for a long while now too many citizens have been not breaking the law and getting away with it.
- maxehmookau 4y ago
  Non-hate hate crimes are the latest cause celebre of the GBNews lot. It's their latest grift and HN would do well to see past it.
  - xdennis 4y ago
    I don't agree with being harassed by the police over something that's literally not a crime. But I'm not sure why GBNews would be grifting with it. Conservatives have been in power in the UK for 12 years now and they've done nothing about it.
- notavalleyman 4y ago
  > the police have recorded over 100000 incidents I just think it's worth rebutting, that the police are not combing twitter for anything borderline. These are complaints that the public are making to the police. There is a relevant law about malicious comms, so the police are obliged to open a case. > this new woke era Give me a break. Members of the public are taxed to provide a police service. If they feel like they're a victim of malicious communications, they're allowed to go to the police. Nothing to do with being "content to police non-crime" or being "woke".
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    >These are complaints that the public are making to the police. There is a relevant law about malicious comms, so the police are obliged to open a case. >Give me a break. Members of the public are taxed to provide a police service. If they feel like they're a victim of malicious communications, they're allowed to go to the police. Nothing to do with being "content to police non-crime" or being "woke". And you act as though that's a good thing? 100k people going through the work of reporting what is likely mostly unfunny boomer memes and thinly veiled trolling is a much stronger indictment of the current state of affairs than 100k instances of bored cops going looking for violations of some broad law from the comfort of their desks.
    - notavalleyman 4y ago
      You don't know that at all. For all you know, 99% are legitimate targeted harassment or part of a larger course of offending behaviour. It's snap uninformed judgements like yours that are the problem, imo
      - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        I might not know but it seems like a very fair default assumption given the history of anti-nuisance laws in meatspace.
- SamoyedFurFluff 4y ago
  Police were already enforcing non-crime for a long time. They get called when there are black and brown people in spaces that makes the neighbors nervous. I don’t think police being used as an enforcement mechanism for non-crimes should be critiqued as if it’s a new phenomenon. It’s old and it sucks and it should be critiqued on that.
Overtonwindow 4y ago
I would say that tyranny has already begun, we are long past its beginning. It has been a slow creep.
- dmitryminkovsky 4y ago
  It's as if the standards of what is and what is not acceptable are slowly shifting...
  - Overtonwindow 4y ago
    Touché. Would that not mean in acceptance of the tyranny? I think a large segment of the American public sees that something is wrong, and that the creep has become too much. If anything that might be our saving grace, so I hope we are not trapped in an Overton window.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
ohgodplsno 4y ago
- bobsmooth 4y ago
  You know, it was only a few decades ago that promoting gay rights was considered obscene speech and illegal. Remember that the laws used to arrest meme posters can also be used to arrest civil rights activists.
- lampshades 4y ago
  Just take a step back and listen to yourself man.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
kelnos 4y ago
The problem in this case is that the people it's radicalizing are transphobic assholes. I wish someone who didn't suck was responsible for poking at this terrible law.
felurx 4y ago
I don't know if radicalization is the right word or the process that should be happening, but there is something important to note here: The radicalization that happens in circles like the one that image comes from, in addition to or instead of the one (I hope) you mean, is not one against undemocratic practices, abuse of power etc. It is one against people who are trans (or queer in general). And that radicalization does harm. It leads to shame and discrimination. It leads to violence. And yes, it _kills_. Please make sure you (and others) know what radicalization you mean, and make sure that the one that is happening is correct.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

bergenty 4y ago

Completely disagree. It’s echo chambers online that are radicalizing people.

eloisius 4y ago
Partially true, but this kind of police overreaction is definitely giving the Alex Jones' of the world ammo. When those characters go on about the thought police of the new world order or whatever, it's not without a little truth.
- bergenty 4y ago
  Those characters will lie if they have to create content. This should not deter people from putting reasonable measures in place.

undersuit 4y ago

"It's not my fault I'm a Nazi, I had to become one to fight the government from cracking down on Nazis."

vorpalhex 4y ago
One of the Nazi propaganda moves was to align Jewish people with pedophiles. "Well obviously pedophiles are bad. You wouldn't defend a pedophile! Unless.. you are a pedophile?" Of course you are going to label your opponent in unfavorable terms. But here's the thing - why do you need to? If your opponent is actually a murderer, you don't need to talk them up as a Sig Heiling murderer who hates gay people. You can just be truthful and call them a murderer. If the only offense you have is to slander your opponent... you might be making up the outrage.
- cloverich 4y ago
  I think you are saying it is bad to equate some undesireable behavior with nazism, because its equivalent to he nazi's equating Jews with Pedophiles, then labeling people as pedophiles to push an agenda. If that's right I think its also relevant in this case the person's tweet was of an actual swastika.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Is Wikipedia a Nazi organization for having swastikas depicted on their entry? Clearly the meme was not pro-Nazi.
    - undersuit 4y ago
      Are we Nazis for talking about swastikas? What was the meme. Context is key to understanding complex thoughts, even ugly bigoted ones, I'm concerned that you aren't including it. Lawrence Fox is not an LGBT ally in any way, and his tweet and the retweet of this news story were not funny, they were attacks. 'Haha so funny, it's not pro-Nazi, it's just saying other people are Nazis.'