4 ms·

Not the first time I see someone saying this for refrigerators and I don't understand how it could be possible. From what I can find even in extreme case it's

Not the first time I see someone saying this for refrigerators and I don't understand how it could be possible. From what I can find even in extreme case it's not true. Even with a fridge from 1972 which averaged 1726kw/h (Source: https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.energy.27.122001.083452 https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/10.1146/annurev.energy.27....) to a more recent one which will probably be around 400kwh. And with the kwh at 0.15$ (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610). You obtain a reduction of (1726-400) * 0.15 ~= 200$ a year. I believe the average refrigerator price in the USA is over 400$ so I can't understand where the 2 years figure would come from without even talking about trying to supposedly be "green" ... And after 1988 you are down to 800kwh so you would gain something like 60$ a year.

bombcar 4y ago
You can get some pretty cheap fridges https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-10-cu-ft-top-freezer-refrigerator-with-reversible-door-white/6449409.p?skuId=6449409 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-10-cu-ft-top-freezer-r... - but as you suspect it's post-facto justification of a purchase someone wanted to make anyway. Once you account for manufacturing and disposal, running the older is probably almost always better.
- Timshel 4y ago
  Yes and it even has a lower energy usage : ~300kw/h :). But since you probably upgraded from a similar one then you are probably more inline with the 60$ I mention at the end and not 200$. From what I understand high end fridge are often less efficient because of features like ice fountain or freezer in the lower part with drawers instead of doors. Anyway I'm thinking it's probably not just post-facto justification because it looks too much like a seller pitch and wondering where it comes from. I'm French and I had never heard it.
Macha 4y ago
1. Electricity in other countries is more expensive. e.g. in Ireland it is €0.35/kwh (~$0.40). 2. Other countries have smaller houses, therefore smaller kitchens therefore smaller refrigerators. Between that and higher energy efficiency standards in general, new refrigerators in my local store vary from 230kwh (A energy rating) to 260kwh (F energy rating) in power usage.
- Timshel 4y ago
  For your second point it probably applied 10/20 years ago too, then it means you have an even smaller budget to make some economy. So even when doubling electricity price I fail to see how it could be possible to reach the two years originally mentioned. And I believe each time I have seen this 2 years figure mentioned it was probably USA centric conversation. I'm French and I had never heard of it before.
happyopossum 4y ago
$0.15 is laughably cheap for some parts of the country... Here in California it's not uncommon to pay 3x that, so $600/yr in electricity saved by a $400 appliance is a huge deal.
- simfree 4y ago
  Even here in expensive Seattle our top rate (when you go above 500kWh a month, which is $0.1056/kWh) is $0.1307 per kWh. If you go just north the top rate falls to $0.10/kWh, and many PUDs in the state charge around half that price.
tedunangst 4y ago
I plugged my parents 1960 fridge into a kilowatt and it used so little power I had to leave it plugged in for several days to make sure I got a reasonable reading. Something like 2 kwhr per day. So it would take about five years for a replacement to pay for itself if the replacement ran on nothing but happy thoughts.
massysett 4y ago
Folks make these same sort of claims on high-efficiency HVAC systems and I never get them to pencil out. The higher efficiency doesn’t pay for itself even over the entire lifespan of the system. Inevitably the people making these claims sell HVAC systems.

bombcar 4y ago

You can get some pretty cheap fridges https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-10-cu-ft-top-freezer-refrigerator-with-reversible-door-white/6449409.p?skuId=6449409 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/insignia-10-cu-ft-top-freezer-r... - but as you suspect it's post-facto justification of a purchase someone wanted to make anyway. Once you account for manufacturing and disposal, running the older is probably almost always better.

Timshel 4y ago
Yes and it even has a lower energy usage : ~300kw/h :). But since you probably upgraded from a similar one then you are probably more inline with the 60$ I mention at the end and not 200$. From what I understand high end fridge are often less efficient because of features like ice fountain or freezer in the lower part with drawers instead of doors. Anyway I'm thinking it's probably not just post-facto justification because it looks too much like a seller pitch and wondering where it comes from. I'm French and I had never heard it.

Macha 4y ago

1. Electricity in other countries is more expensive. e.g. in Ireland it is €0.35/kwh (~$0.40). 2. Other countries have smaller houses, therefore smaller kitchens therefore smaller refrigerators. Between that and higher energy efficiency standards in general, new refrigerators in my local store vary from 230kwh (A energy rating) to 260kwh (F energy rating) in power usage.

Timshel 4y ago
For your second point it probably applied 10/20 years ago too, then it means you have an even smaller budget to make some economy. So even when doubling electricity price I fail to see how it could be possible to reach the two years originally mentioned. And I believe each time I have seen this 2 years figure mentioned it was probably USA centric conversation. I'm French and I had never heard of it before.

happyopossum 4y ago

$0.15 is laughably cheap for some parts of the country... Here in California it's not uncommon to pay 3x that, so $600/yr in electricity saved by a $400 appliance is a huge deal.

simfree 4y ago
Even here in expensive Seattle our top rate (when you go above 500kWh a month, which is $0.1056/kWh) is $0.1307 per kWh. If you go just north the top rate falls to $0.10/kWh, and many PUDs in the state charge around half that price.

tedunangst 4y ago

I plugged my parents 1960 fridge into a kilowatt and it used so little power I had to leave it plugged in for several days to make sure I got a reasonable reading. Something like 2 kwhr per day. So it would take about five years for a replacement to pay for itself if the replacement ran on nothing but happy thoughts.

massysett 4y ago

Folks make these same sort of claims on high-efficiency HVAC systems and I never get them to pencil out. The higher efficiency doesn’t pay for itself even over the entire lifespan of the system. Inevitably the people making these claims sell HVAC systems.