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(Outside looking in perspective. I am not Indian.) When I worked as a software engineer are capital one earlier in my career, thus was a very noticeable trend.

(Outside looking in perspective. I am not Indian.) When I worked as a software engineer are capital one earlier in my career, thus was a very noticeable trend. You had entire teams/groups (and to some extent geographical regions given the way the capital one workforce was split between Richmond Virginia, McLean Virginia, and NYC) where particular castes grouped together. It became particularly acute when you took into account who was on visa/sponsored and who was not.

ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
Saw this at American Express. In many cases, VPs and Directors were actually cousins or even siblings. This was a decade ago. Fast forward to now, and they are at the top of many NYC banks running IT divisions, the same group that worked together so many years ago. Theres an invisible network in many large corporations and none of the jobs are available to employees of those corporations
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  It seems like you are describing the norm. The prime advice for everyone is networking, networking, networking, isn’t it? And it’s not what you know, but who you know. Going to the right schools to be able to make the right friends, etc.
  - ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
    No I'm saying a group of relatives from India methodically only hire eachother and use vicious politics to climb the ladder in american corporations. I watched it occur over a decade and still see the hiring updates on LinkedIn, "I am proud to announce we have hired XYZ from other big corp as the new head of data and governance."
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - hadlock 4y ago
      This is very common/normal. My last company got eaten in a merger (acquisition) most of the senior leadership from the old company, are now at a competing company. They did not all end up there by random chance. Network network network. It's self reinforcing, because those people know who will get the job done, and make them look good doing it. It's often better to hire a known good person, rather than roll the dice on someone new.
      - pictureofabear 4y ago
        This is only common and normal in corrupt countries.
      - ceres 4y ago
        What you and the parent are describing are two different things. The parent is talking about ethnic nepotism which isn’t just “network network network”.
        aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
        It is if you're not talented — these people are here, commenting now, that think solely "meeting people" and convincing them to give you things is enough of a life skill to go off of.
      - thatguy0900 4y ago
        There's quite a difference between hiring old coworkers and hiring family, though
      - hitekker 4y ago
        Ethnic nepotism is not normal. It's one thing to hire people you know, it's another thing to discriminate and hire members of your own family.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - thisiscorrect 4y ago
    Networking and having a reputation among peers for doing good work is one thing. Ethnic nepotism is a different thing. It's a massive failure on the part of many of these companies that this is allowed to happen.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      Nepotism is a failure, and working against it is definitely a worthwhile effort. But I have also seen non Indian nephews/nieces get hired into internships because their relative knows someone in the decision making process, etc. We very openly have universities in the US that favor admitting children and relatives of alumni. Hell, we just had a US President that installed his own kids and son in law in various government capacities, and then pardoned his son in law’s dad. I guess my comment is to question whether Indians are doing something that different to what non Indians are doing. It seems like a very gray area. Of course, Indians could be doing it to a shade of gray closer to nepotism than others.
      - jquery 4y ago
        No, what Indians are doing is not unique to them. Americans discriminate against black people, notoriously so. I’m sure the Indians who support these caste systems would merely say it’s meritocracy in action, same as all the whites/asians opposing any governmental rule that tries to level the playing field for black people in America. (This comment will of course be downvoted heavily and/or flagged)
        anonymoushn 4y ago
        No downvotes, but I haven't yet figured out why racial quotas for Jews were bad and racial quotas for Asians are good.
        akdor1154 4y ago
        Because one is 'at least' and one is 'at most'?
  - faeriechangling 4y ago
    No the issue is that high caste Indians are every bit of vicious nepotists as WASP whites but for some reason only the threat of the WASP whites is taken seriously. My local laws literally treat caucasians and non-caucasians differently because they were written by white people who literally could not imagine themselves not being on top. I also absolutely think there is a double standard in regards to how seriously allegations of racism against white and non-white managers are taken.
  - opportune 4y ago
    In my experience, it’s very uncommon for this to happen in big corporations at such a frank level. Like yes maybe your buddy from work years back gets tapped for a leadership position, but not your actual brother or cousin, or your childhood friend from the same small town. And if it does happen it’s more of a 1:1 thing and not a huge cluster of your extended family (again, in big corporations. I’m sure it happens a lot in smaller, private family companies).
  - dsq 4y ago
    At some point there’s a line between networking and overt nepotism, which is what’s being described as being crossed here.
mc32 4y ago
I wonder if anti-bias training for Indian hiring managers have would any effect? Or would taking the hiring of Indians need to be made by non-Indians in order to avoid this bias? Additionally, there is some selection-bias as well. In other words, do we measure against the Indian pop in the US (or Canada, etc) or against the proportions in India itself and when doing so raw numbers, or number of graduates or graduates from the IITs?
thisiscorrect 4y ago
One company I worked at in a major US city allowed individual teams to perform their own hiring. The division I was in had employees mostly from outside the US, and the autonomy given to each team led them to form their own to ethnic enclaves. There was a team of Indians, Chinese, Koreans, etc. When I first started, I couldn't believe it. That doesn't happen merely by change, at least not that pervasively and consistently. It sounds like this is occurring everywhere.
- in_cahoots 4y ago
  I’ve seen this at the two FAANGs I’ve worked at as well. The company may be diverse but teams are homogeneous.
thunkshift1 4y ago
I am curious to know.. how did you know of their caste? Its not something that comes up in office conversations
- John23832 4y ago
  It is if you talk with Indians. Id sit and eat with my Indian coworkers and they would describe the lay of the land.
  - thunkshift1 4y ago
    I see.. In my experience, I don’t think this is topic of everyday conversation over lunches among indians. You seem to have rather chatty colleagues!

ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago

Saw this at American Express. In many cases, VPs and Directors were actually cousins or even siblings. This was a decade ago. Fast forward to now, and they are at the top of many NYC banks running IT divisions, the same group that worked together so many years ago. Theres an invisible network in many large corporations and none of the jobs are available to employees of those corporations

lotsofpulp 4y ago
It seems like you are describing the norm. The prime advice for everyone is networking, networking, networking, isn’t it? And it’s not what you know, but who you know. Going to the right schools to be able to make the right friends, etc.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
  No I'm saying a group of relatives from India methodically only hire eachother and use vicious politics to climb the ladder in american corporations. I watched it occur over a decade and still see the hiring updates on LinkedIn, "I am proud to announce we have hired XYZ from other big corp as the new head of data and governance."
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - hadlock 4y ago
    This is very common/normal. My last company got eaten in a merger (acquisition) most of the senior leadership from the old company, are now at a competing company. They did not all end up there by random chance. Network network network. It's self reinforcing, because those people know who will get the job done, and make them look good doing it. It's often better to hire a known good person, rather than roll the dice on someone new.
    - pictureofabear 4y ago
      This is only common and normal in corrupt countries.
    - ceres 4y ago
      What you and the parent are describing are two different things. The parent is talking about ethnic nepotism which isn’t just “network network network”.
      - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
        It is if you're not talented — these people are here, commenting now, that think solely "meeting people" and convincing them to give you things is enough of a life skill to go off of.
    - thatguy0900 4y ago
      There's quite a difference between hiring old coworkers and hiring family, though
    - hitekker 4y ago
      Ethnic nepotism is not normal. It's one thing to hire people you know, it's another thing to discriminate and hire members of your own family.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- thisiscorrect 4y ago
  Networking and having a reputation among peers for doing good work is one thing. Ethnic nepotism is a different thing. It's a massive failure on the part of many of these companies that this is allowed to happen.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Nepotism is a failure, and working against it is definitely a worthwhile effort. But I have also seen non Indian nephews/nieces get hired into internships because their relative knows someone in the decision making process, etc. We very openly have universities in the US that favor admitting children and relatives of alumni. Hell, we just had a US President that installed his own kids and son in law in various government capacities, and then pardoned his son in law’s dad. I guess my comment is to question whether Indians are doing something that different to what non Indians are doing. It seems like a very gray area. Of course, Indians could be doing it to a shade of gray closer to nepotism than others.
    - jquery 4y ago
      No, what Indians are doing is not unique to them. Americans discriminate against black people, notoriously so. I’m sure the Indians who support these caste systems would merely say it’s meritocracy in action, same as all the whites/asians opposing any governmental rule that tries to level the playing field for black people in America. (This comment will of course be downvoted heavily and/or flagged)
      - anonymoushn 4y ago
        No downvotes, but I haven't yet figured out why racial quotas for Jews were bad and racial quotas for Asians are good.
        akdor1154 4y ago
        Because one is 'at least' and one is 'at most'?
- faeriechangling 4y ago
  No the issue is that high caste Indians are every bit of vicious nepotists as WASP whites but for some reason only the threat of the WASP whites is taken seriously. My local laws literally treat caucasians and non-caucasians differently because they were written by white people who literally could not imagine themselves not being on top. I also absolutely think there is a double standard in regards to how seriously allegations of racism against white and non-white managers are taken.
- opportune 4y ago
  In my experience, it’s very uncommon for this to happen in big corporations at such a frank level. Like yes maybe your buddy from work years back gets tapped for a leadership position, but not your actual brother or cousin, or your childhood friend from the same small town. And if it does happen it’s more of a 1:1 thing and not a huge cluster of your extended family (again, in big corporations. I’m sure it happens a lot in smaller, private family companies).
- dsq 4y ago
  At some point there’s a line between networking and overt nepotism, which is what’s being described as being crossed here.

mc32 4y ago

I wonder if anti-bias training for Indian hiring managers have would any effect? Or would taking the hiring of Indians need to be made by non-Indians in order to avoid this bias? Additionally, there is some selection-bias as well. In other words, do we measure against the Indian pop in the US (or Canada, etc) or against the proportions in India itself and when doing so raw numbers, or number of graduates or graduates from the IITs?

thisiscorrect 4y ago

One company I worked at in a major US city allowed individual teams to perform their own hiring. The division I was in had employees mostly from outside the US, and the autonomy given to each team led them to form their own to ethnic enclaves. There was a team of Indians, Chinese, Koreans, etc. When I first started, I couldn't believe it. That doesn't happen merely by change, at least not that pervasively and consistently. It sounds like this is occurring everywhere.

in_cahoots 4y ago
I’ve seen this at the two FAANGs I’ve worked at as well. The company may be diverse but teams are homogeneous.

thunkshift1 4y ago

I am curious to know.. how did you know of their caste? Its not something that comes up in office conversations

John23832 4y ago
It is if you talk with Indians. Id sit and eat with my Indian coworkers and they would describe the lay of the land.
- thunkshift1 4y ago
  I see.. In my experience, I don’t think this is topic of everyday conversation over lunches among indians. You seem to have rather chatty colleagues!