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An idea for a regulation would be to measure the ratio of maximum weight of living things that a vehicle can transport / weight of vehicle when empty, and make

by bambax 4y ago

An idea for a regulation would be to measure the ratio of maximum weight of living things that a vehicle can transport / weight of vehicle when empty, and make this ratio grow progressively bigger. The ratio is probably around 0.1 today on average (just an intuition, I don't have the actual numbers), and ideally it should be close to 1, or maybe over 1. For an ebike for example, it's around 3. Moving 2-5 tons of metal to transport just one human being is positively insane.

robin_reala 4y ago
My car can happily seat 4 adults (so let’s say 250kg) and weighs a touch over 1000kg, so the ratio is 0.25. 0.1 would mean that a car that seats just 4 adults weighs 2.5 tonnes, which seems extreme?
- routeroff 4y ago
  A 2021 Chevrolet Silverado weight 5190 lbs [0], which is 2.35 tonnes, which is extreme but in the range of the article. [0] https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/silverado-1500/2021/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/silverado-1500/2021/featur...
- jeffbee 4y ago
  Have you heard of Rivian?
- bambax 4y ago
  Yeah you're right, maybe closer to .15 or .2; the F-150 weights between 2 and 2.5 metric tons depending on configuration, and seats only 5. The Yukon SUV that Arnold Schwarzenegger drives weights over 2.7 metric tons (6k pounds). The Tesla truck is announced to pass the 8,500 pounds mark, or around 3.8 metric tons (!!)
- mayniac 4y ago
  The average weight of a mid-sized sedan is about 1,500kg, and the average weight of all American cars is closer to 1,900kg. A 4-seater close to 1,000kg is exceptionally light by modern standards. The Mazda MX-5 is a 2-seater which is famous for being lightweight, and it also weighs a few kg above a ton. Also going off maximum human capacity isn't great in context, as the average car journey has <1.5 occupants. Not to mention if this was codified, car manufacturers would simply put folding seats in the trunk.
  - robin_reala 4y ago
    My previous car was an MX-5, so maybe I’m predisposed to picking light vehicles (current is a Suzuki Swift Sport).
  - bambax 4y ago
    > car manufacturers would simply put folding seats in the trunk Fair enough, but then we could decide the relevant ratio is one human / GVW.
greggeter 4y ago
suoduandao2 4y ago
Wouldn't make much sense to restrict it to living things in the case of a truck though, since they're specifically designed to haul things other than passengers. Seems like a good heuristic apart from that though.
junofan 4y ago
Honestly I think coming up with ways to get people to want smaller cars is the way to go. I don’t drive a big truck and I don’t understand the decisionmaking that goes into buying one. I’m hesitant to make rules that apply only to other people doing something I don’t understand.
- triceratops 4y ago
  > I think coming up with ways to get people to want smaller cars is the way to go Make gas expensive and keep it that way, regardless of the political cost. Massively increase insurance rates for bigger cars. Again, this would have to be done through laws. Tax vehicles based on weight. Effect a radical transformation in culture that changes what people value. Which of these are most doable?
  - dont__panic 4y ago
    Nationwide tax based on weight seems like the winner to me. You want a giant car that destroys roads just by driving on them? You'll have to shell out cash based on that impact. You can always buy the smaller truck from OP's article if you truly just need to haul something.
  - alamortsubite 4y ago
    Here's another excellent opportunity: make all fines for moving violations proportional to GVWR.
dont__panic 4y ago
The ratio is tricky. We don't really need vehicles to potentially carry more people -- we need folks to buy smaller vehicles. If we try to penalize people for buying a two-seater truck, they'll just buy an even bigger extended cab with more seats. This is pretty much the exact kind of metric game the article cites as causing these giant trucks in the first place -- companies were penalized for building small fuel-inefficient trucks, so they just built big fuel-inefficient trucks that weren't penalized as much.

by bambax 4y ago

robin_reala 4y ago

My car can happily seat 4 adults (so let’s say 250kg) and weighs a touch over 1000kg, so the ratio is 0.25. 0.1 would mean that a car that seats just 4 adults weighs 2.5 tonnes, which seems extreme?

routeroff 4y ago
A 2021 Chevrolet Silverado weight 5190 lbs [0], which is 2.35 tonnes, which is extreme but in the range of the article. [0] https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/silverado-1500/2021/features-specs/ https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/silverado-1500/2021/featur...
jeffbee 4y ago
Have you heard of Rivian?
bambax 4y ago
Yeah you're right, maybe closer to .15 or .2; the F-150 weights between 2 and 2.5 metric tons depending on configuration, and seats only 5. The Yukon SUV that Arnold Schwarzenegger drives weights over 2.7 metric tons (6k pounds). The Tesla truck is announced to pass the 8,500 pounds mark, or around 3.8 metric tons (!!)
mayniac 4y ago
The average weight of a mid-sized sedan is about 1,500kg, and the average weight of all American cars is closer to 1,900kg. A 4-seater close to 1,000kg is exceptionally light by modern standards. The Mazda MX-5 is a 2-seater which is famous for being lightweight, and it also weighs a few kg above a ton. Also going off maximum human capacity isn't great in context, as the average car journey has <1.5 occupants. Not to mention if this was codified, car manufacturers would simply put folding seats in the trunk.
- robin_reala 4y ago
  My previous car was an MX-5, so maybe I’m predisposed to picking light vehicles (current is a Suzuki Swift Sport).
- bambax 4y ago
  > car manufacturers would simply put folding seats in the trunk Fair enough, but then we could decide the relevant ratio is one human / GVW.

greggeter 4y ago

suoduandao2 4y ago

Wouldn't make much sense to restrict it to living things in the case of a truck though, since they're specifically designed to haul things other than passengers. Seems like a good heuristic apart from that though.

junofan 4y ago

Honestly I think coming up with ways to get people to want smaller cars is the way to go. I don’t drive a big truck and I don’t understand the decisionmaking that goes into buying one. I’m hesitant to make rules that apply only to other people doing something I don’t understand.

triceratops 4y ago
> I think coming up with ways to get people to want smaller cars is the way to go Make gas expensive and keep it that way, regardless of the political cost. Massively increase insurance rates for bigger cars. Again, this would have to be done through laws. Tax vehicles based on weight. Effect a radical transformation in culture that changes what people value. Which of these are most doable?
- dont__panic 4y ago
  Nationwide tax based on weight seems like the winner to me. You want a giant car that destroys roads just by driving on them? You'll have to shell out cash based on that impact. You can always buy the smaller truck from OP's article if you truly just need to haul something.
- alamortsubite 4y ago
  Here's another excellent opportunity: make all fines for moving violations proportional to GVWR.

dont__panic 4y ago

The ratio is tricky. We don't really need vehicles to potentially carry more people -- we need folks to buy smaller vehicles. If we try to penalize people for buying a two-seater truck, they'll just buy an even bigger extended cab with more seats. This is pretty much the exact kind of metric game the article cites as causing these giant trucks in the first place -- companies were penalized for building small fuel-inefficient trucks, so they just built big fuel-inefficient trucks that weren't penalized as much.