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"Bigger trucks pose a greater hazard to pedestrians and smaller vehicles" It's an arms race. I used to live near a couple who were both doctors in the ER and
by pneumatic1 4y ago
"Bigger trucks pose a greater hazard to pedestrians and smaller vehicles"
It's an arms race.
I used to live near a couple who were both doctors in the ER and they both drive the biggest trucks that they could find because they saw that people in large trucks tended to be fare better in accidents.
I have a small sedan for myself and a smallish SUV for my wife and kids. I feel pressure to upgrade both to something larger.
- jahnu 4y agoThey may have seen that but is it actually true? Is there high quality evidence for this?
- mlyle 4y agoHigher mass means in a collision you "win" and have smaller accelerations than the other vehicle. Larger potentially means even in a single-vehicle accident, there is a greater distance to decelerate over and things are less likely to intrude into the vehicle. The IIHS, which systematically tests vehicles in simulated crashes, says: > A bigger, heavier vehicle provides better crash protection than a smaller, lighter one, assuming no other differences. The part of the vehicle between the front bumper and the occupant compartment absorbs energy from crashes by crumpling. As a result, the longer front ends of larger vehicles offer better protection in frontal crashes. Heavier vehicles also tend to continue moving forward in crashes with lighter vehicles and other obstacles, so the people inside them are subject to less force. https://www.iihs.org/topics/vehicle-size-and-weight https://www.iihs.org/topics/vehicle-size-and-weight There is some simple actuarial data there on their page, too, which shows there's a marked advantage but it is less than it used to be.
- pneumatic1 4y agoAlso safety ratings are only with respect to other vehicles in the same class. Great ratings for a sedan don't say anything about how well it will perform head-on against an F-150.
- jjoonathan 4y agoIt's true. Not only will the bigger object experience less F=ma acceleration in a collision, it will also have a stronger frame and deeper crumple zones.
- kgwgk 4y agoEven if it was, they could be objectively worse. For example, because they are more likely to be involved minor accidents. (Think of the well-known example of low-weight births having better survival rates for smoking mothers.)
- jeffbee 4y agoAccording to the IIHS, trucks had worse occupant fatality rates throughout automotive history until about 10 years ago, but have had lower rates than cars since then. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/passenger-vehicle-occupants https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/passe...
- justnotworthit 4y agohttps://academic.oup.com/restud/article-abstract/81/2/535/1517632 https://academic.oup.com/restud/article-abstract/81/2/535/15... Pounds That Kill: The External Costs of Vehicle Weight "Heavier vehicles are safer for their own occupants but more hazardous for other vehicles" https://static1.squarespace.com/static/591f304fa5790aa5cc8df828/t/5f6e298068ef927e2a1d4150/1601055105982/aa.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/591f304fa5790aa5cc8df... https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/the-hidden-dangers-of-big-trucks/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/the-hidden-danger... Pickup trucks are getting larger and becoming a hazard to pedestrians and drivers of smaller vehicles
- strikelaserclaw 4y agotry living in the south, these behemoths are everywhere and i feel like same way, feel like it is unsafe to drive my sedan near those big trucks. I think i'll invest in an semi truck, that'll show people who the man on the road really is.
- krisoft 4y agoI would recommend that you upgrade to a Marauder produced by the Paramount Group: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDoRmT0iRic
- bombcar 4y agoYou can get ex-military vehicles surprisingly cheap. The 5 MPG hurts a bit after awhile, however.
- lamp_book 4y ago5MPG? Pssh, get something that's 5GPM and you'll never worry about a wreck again.
- scottLobster 4y agoNah, you need a 1970 M35A2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi0a51ZqjOQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi0a51ZqjOQ
- svennek 4y agonext obvious step after the semi would then be an M1 Abrams...
- chihuahua 4y agoWhen I run over M1A1s in my Bagger 293 [0] on the way to the mall, I don't even notice the bump. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_293 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagger_293
- lom 4y agoYou’ll be happy to know that pickups are actually more dangerous for their driver. Mostly because they’re more likely to spin out or roll over.
- q-big 4y ago> You’ll be happy to know that pickups are actually more dangerous for their driver. Mostly because they’re more likely to spin out or roll over. Just a consideration: Would integrating 5-point harnesses and an rollover cage into these trucks help to mitigate this problem? (I am of course aware that the latter would make to truck even heavier)
- bombcar 4y agoA HAND (head and neck device) could help, as could a roll cage (most vehicles have some roll protection built in - you can see cars and trucks stacked on top of each other at junkyards). Five point harness is a bit better than a normal belt, but we already have a significant number of vehicle fatalities where the occupants are not wearing the belts provided already. So it could make it worse as five-point is more annoying. Arguably the strengthening of the roll-cage in vehicles has lead to the a-pillar problem. https://www.thewisedrive.com/the-a-pillar-problem/ https://www.thewisedrive.com/the-a-pillar-problem/ - my small modern car has a much wider a-pillar than my massive boat from the 60s.
- sokoloff 4y agoThe side-curtain airbag in the A-pillar is also a factor [perhaps a bigger factor than rollover strength] of the expansion of the A-pillar's view blocking in particular for pedestrians during turns.
- SkyPuncher 4y ago> an rollover cage into these trucks help to mitigate this problem? I'm fairly sure that safety standards essentially require the roof to not crumple in rollover conditions. Roll cages are necessary in racing where speeds (and forces) are much higher than road speeds.
- kybernetyk 4y agoSame reasoning for my wife and I. We imported a full size truck from the US when we got our kid.
- s_dev 4y ago>both drive the biggest trucks that they could find because they saw that people in large trucks tended to be fare better in accidents. People don't generally consider that the bigger cars are more likely to be in accidents in the first place even if they come out of it better. Ireland would have much smaller cars than the US but much better traffic record. So bigger == safer -- isn't giving a nuanced story or understanding. For sure though bigger == less fuel efficient.
- pneumatic1 4y agoMaybe more likely to be in an accident because the driver feels safer and so is more careless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Tullock#Tullock's_spike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Tullock#Tullock's_spike
- bena 4y agoThat's funny, but demonstrably untrue. The steering shaft used to be pretty much that and it caused a lot of fatalities. So they stopped building cars like that.
- adamsmith143 4y agoAre we confusing correlation with causation? Is there actually an indication that larger cars are more prone to accidents or are their drivers inherently more aggressive and accident prone?
- JTbane 4y agoOr, instead of the "fuck you get mine" mentality that I hate about living in the USA, maybe we could try to drive more safely and defensively with a sedan that doesn't roll over and has nice crumple zones?
- Aperocky 4y ago> drive more safely and defensively Everyone knows that's not happening anytime soon.
- prirun 4y agoEspecially with car manufacturers putting huge screens in the middle of the dashboard and eliminating knobs and buttons. If anyone gave a shit about safety, screens, including phones, should be disabled while the car is not in Park.
- olyjohn 4y agoSedans are gonna be gone in a few years. Ford already culled thier lineup of regular cars and all the other sutomarkers are working on that too. Trusks are also way more profitable than cars and thats another reason there are so many of them.
- nordsieck 4y ago> Sedans are gonna be gone in a few years. Maybe for Ford/GM/etc. But it looks like Kia/Hyundai/Honda/Toyota are still pumping them out with vigor. And Tesla basically _only_ makes sedans. > Trusks are also way more profitable than cars and thats another reason there are so many of them. Maybe that explains the supply side, but it doesn't explain the demand side.
- bena 4y agoYeah, I just want/need something in the Civic/Corolla range. My ego is not attached to my vehicle. It's a conveyance for me and others. Rarely, I would say I need a pickup to carry stuff, and that's pretty rare. Maybe once or twice a year at most. And would be serviced by something in the old Ford Ranger class of light truck. I know Ford is bringing back the Ranger, but I don't know if it's in the same class as the 90's/00s Ranger.
- yboris 4y agoYou may like one of my favorite philosophy papers: Vehicles and Crashes: Why is this Moral Issue Overlooked? by Douglas Husak https://www.jstor.org/stable/23562447 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23562447 - arguing that SUVs are immoral.
- TremendousJudge 4y agoDo you have a link to a full copy?
- wyager 4y agoI looked into this in detail one time and my fermi estimate was that, if we banned trucks entirely, it might optimistically save like 40 pedestrians a year. It's clearly not worth bothering, just on the grounds that it would be politically expensive, and it's also pretty clearly not utilitarian either.
- triceratops 4y agoHow many people in smaller cars would you save?
- nabilhat 4y agoModern passenger pickups are only safer from a sociopathic perspective. The rate and quantity of property damage and persons maimed or killed is increased substantially when modern passenger pickups are out driving around in polite society. The fraction of that damage and injury borne by the occupants of that vehicle, the only people with the power to make the decision to use that vehicle, is reduced. The volume of damage, injury, and death borne by everyone else increases by multiples when a modern passenger pickup enters the mix.
- ActorNightly 4y agoYou are fully correct, except for the moralizing aspect. Its not about being sociopathic - it is about being realistic. There is no way to enforce politeness in our society.
- MichaelZuo 4y agoCongress could pass stricter defamation laws, unlikely but possible.
- incomingpain 4y agoCar safety rating is within class. So when F150 lightning gets 5 star rating, it's within class. If you hit an overweight dumptruck you're going to have a bad time. Luckily dumptruck drivers know how to drive and that rarely happens. However if you're in a ecobox compact, if you hit that dumptruck you're literally flat. If you hit one of the new electric vehicles which weigh in the area of 7-9000lbs. You're going to have a bad time. If you were to properly measure safety rating not within class. It basically is just a measurement of size. So why do they do this? Clearly misrepresenting safety of smaller vehicles? It's entirely a political decision. Bigger vehicles are more expensive. Transportation is one of the highest costs to society. So you dont want everyone driving the biggest vehicles. You want to adjust society so they choose smaller vehicles. The total cost of ownership to society is thusly less and you produce more wealth for your own people. You can see where it's going. Private ownership of cars will remain, some people need full time access to personal transportation. However there's lots of people who really just need to be brought somewhere. Municipalities can offer autonomous electric vehicles that say an elderly person can jump into and get to their destination much like a taxi at much lower cost than a taxi. The cost per trip is going to be measured in cents, maybe dollars with inflation? The cost of transportation to society dramatically decreases. We will be significantly wealthier.
- jollyllama 4y agoThe Rush song "Red Barchetta" was inspired by a 70s sci-fi story that addresses this vehicle size arms-race issue. http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19731100roadandtrack.htm http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19731100roadand...
- dont__panic 4y agoThank you for sharing this. I always loved that song (and most Rush songs, to be honest) but I never knew this was based on a short story! This entire website is a great read as a Rush fan.
- pxtail 4y ago> It's an arms race. > I feel pressure to upgrade both to something larger. It's same for me - one really starts to double think choice of next car when someone clearly distracted, on the phone etc. stops in perpendicular street and huge ass grill or bumper is at the level of your eyes when looking at side window.