5 ms·

Well, some say that proprietary code is limiting because it doesn't allow for modifications and yet it creates almost all the innovation.

prmoustache 4y ago
You have to take into account that the open source software constitute a very small fraction the overall software both in term of quantity of products and in term of developpers involved. Also there is a lot of innovation in open source software, the thing is those are often not seen nor directed to end users. Because many open source projects are initially started by developers and not by product design and marketing teams, the most successful open source projects that make products that solve developers problems or meet their needs.
- Silverback_VII 4y ago
  Taking blender as example of a successful open source project, with a strong incentive for developers to create a great tool, you still have the problem that proprietary software is probably better, otherwise major 3d studios would use blender.
  - anthk 4y ago
    - Apache - GCC/Clang - Nginx - Virt Manager - OpenBSD at firewalls - OpenSSH Should I go on?
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    What about OpenSubDiv by pixar? https://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv/overview.html https://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv/overview.html What are better proprietary alternatives to Kubernetes, Nomad, Docker, Podman? Aren't the most widely adopted web servers and frameworks open source? I am only naming a few areas.
    - Silverback_VII 4y ago
      One could argue that since these projects are often developed by contributors who have proprietary software in mind, it is in fact proprietary code wich creates the collaborative open-source effort in the background.
      - entropicdrifter 4y ago
        Money may make the motivation much of the time, but that doesn't mean that OSS isn't where much of the innovation happens. The same is true of games. Counter Strike started out as a free Half-Life mod. DOTA started as a Warcraft 3 mod. Both spawned entire subsections of e-sports that are still wildly popular today (tactical FPS arena and MOBA respectively).
  - nkozyra 4y ago
    Often big companies pay for proprietary stuff because you get support. Lots of smaller studios use Blender, it's pretty well stress tested by now.
  - SanderNL 4y ago
    Proprietary software is software that keeps the lights on for the people that work on it. Sun Tzu has figured out a while ago that it's a bad idea to back your enemies into a corner. Like it or not, fighting with your back against a wall makes you lethal. Now, I'm not saying open source is unable to match this. They can and have. I'm just saying that most proprietary software has that advantage naturally (in a capitalist society).
  - jtode 4y ago
    I worked at Tangent Animation, now defunct - we used Blender as our primary render software, and produced several feature projects, two of them still running on Netflix last I checked. We were not major, but it has been done. The reasoning was that we had paid a very large sum to use Maya on our first project, and had received basically no support whatsoever for that money, aside from the software itself. So we worked with the Blender Foundation instead, and got much better support, collaboration on new features, etc. I don't have any personal exposure to any of Blender's commercial competitors, but I learned to make cartoons as a side effect of working there, and Blender basically fills me with awe at what they have accomplished. Perhaps Maya is even better than that, but that's for people with the money to pay for it to decide, I suppose. From what I heard while working in the industry, Autodesk is a husk of a company with no interest in anything but swallowing smaller companies and increasing profits with as minimal investment as possible in new features. Meanwhile, the whole world has access to Blender, and it works just fine, if you want to make cartoons and have ideas and ability but no money. "Better" is extremely subjective here.
bee_rider 4y ago
People say lots of things, but without metrics they are just making things up.
jrm4 4y ago
Proprietary code appears to create all of the innovation because you have to market and sell it. I don't think you can meaningfully say "which creates more innovation" in either direction, though if pressed I'd say, "open source in the long run" -- e.g. Linux runs a much greater variety of things than Windows.

prmoustache 4y ago

You have to take into account that the open source software constitute a very small fraction the overall software both in term of quantity of products and in term of developpers involved. Also there is a lot of innovation in open source software, the thing is those are often not seen nor directed to end users. Because many open source projects are initially started by developers and not by product design and marketing teams, the most successful open source projects that make products that solve developers problems or meet their needs.

Silverback_VII 4y ago
Taking blender as example of a successful open source project, with a strong incentive for developers to create a great tool, you still have the problem that proprietary software is probably better, otherwise major 3d studios would use blender.
- anthk 4y ago
  - Apache - GCC/Clang - Nginx - Virt Manager - OpenBSD at firewalls - OpenSSH Should I go on?
- prmoustache 4y ago
  What about OpenSubDiv by pixar? https://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv/overview.html https://graphics.pixar.com/opensubdiv/overview.html What are better proprietary alternatives to Kubernetes, Nomad, Docker, Podman? Aren't the most widely adopted web servers and frameworks open source? I am only naming a few areas.
  - Silverback_VII 4y ago
    One could argue that since these projects are often developed by contributors who have proprietary software in mind, it is in fact proprietary code wich creates the collaborative open-source effort in the background.
    - entropicdrifter 4y ago
      Money may make the motivation much of the time, but that doesn't mean that OSS isn't where much of the innovation happens. The same is true of games. Counter Strike started out as a free Half-Life mod. DOTA started as a Warcraft 3 mod. Both spawned entire subsections of e-sports that are still wildly popular today (tactical FPS arena and MOBA respectively).
- nkozyra 4y ago
  Often big companies pay for proprietary stuff because you get support. Lots of smaller studios use Blender, it's pretty well stress tested by now.
- SanderNL 4y ago
  Proprietary software is software that keeps the lights on for the people that work on it. Sun Tzu has figured out a while ago that it's a bad idea to back your enemies into a corner. Like it or not, fighting with your back against a wall makes you lethal. Now, I'm not saying open source is unable to match this. They can and have. I'm just saying that most proprietary software has that advantage naturally (in a capitalist society).
- jtode 4y ago
  I worked at Tangent Animation, now defunct - we used Blender as our primary render software, and produced several feature projects, two of them still running on Netflix last I checked. We were not major, but it has been done. The reasoning was that we had paid a very large sum to use Maya on our first project, and had received basically no support whatsoever for that money, aside from the software itself. So we worked with the Blender Foundation instead, and got much better support, collaboration on new features, etc. I don't have any personal exposure to any of Blender's commercial competitors, but I learned to make cartoons as a side effect of working there, and Blender basically fills me with awe at what they have accomplished. Perhaps Maya is even better than that, but that's for people with the money to pay for it to decide, I suppose. From what I heard while working in the industry, Autodesk is a husk of a company with no interest in anything but swallowing smaller companies and increasing profits with as minimal investment as possible in new features. Meanwhile, the whole world has access to Blender, and it works just fine, if you want to make cartoons and have ideas and ability but no money. "Better" is extremely subjective here.

bee_rider 4y ago

People say lots of things, but without metrics they are just making things up.

jrm4 4y ago

Proprietary code appears to create all of the innovation because you have to market and sell it. I don't think you can meaningfully say "which creates more innovation" in either direction, though if pressed I'd say, "open source in the long run" -- e.g. Linux runs a much greater variety of things than Windows.