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Once we build and make stuff truly not on earth it will decouple. The trade never reaches earth then, so overall human economy expands but not earth's (or only

Once we build and make stuff truly not on earth it will decouple. The trade never reaches earth then, so overall human economy expands but not earth's (or only a little, ie high value trade, maybe even take some high waste energy processes off earth if energy from dropping product back is less). The human economy could be much larger but not all parts of the human sphere would necessarily trade with each other materially. Edit: "materially" in the sense of stuff. Some data from a nearby star could still be highly valuable, but exchanging stuff over lightyears might rarely be efficient.

Schroedingersat 4y ago
So then earth still has to degrow even for the short duration before the carrying capacity of the solar system gets exhausted. The presence or absence of a growing economy elsewhere is irrelevant. You ask why now? The answer is because we've already overshot the ability to do everything we do sustainably with the resources available. We need to get off the treadmill now and hope like hell technology and the available buffers are enough to limit the harm to 'merely' hundreds of millions dying.
- RandomLensman 4y ago
  Definitely not degrowth, maybe low growth if high energy stuff cannot be moved off planet and results transported back with low heat impact. (Or no other ways of cooling are found). Also, for example, innovation from growing economies elsewhere can reach back to earth. Expensive stuff that relies on growth can continue to happen and the results shared. Carrying capacity of the solar system is huge, so quite some growth to be captured there. Once it is exhausted, growth for earth and the solar system might slow down because information will have significant travel time. And we haven't even exhausted earth and earth will become uninhabitable ultimately anyway so terminal sustainability is not truly needed.
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    Energy growth on earth must end this century. This entails growth in most primary industries also ending, as well as a large reduction in many. This is incompatible with a system where people starve and everything breaks whenever growth goes below 2%. "Stop giving everything to the people who already have stuff so we need the pie to grow at an exponential rate just to keep the share that goes to 99.99% of the world constant" isn't a hard concept.

Schroedingersat 4y ago

So then earth still has to degrow even for the short duration before the carrying capacity of the solar system gets exhausted. The presence or absence of a growing economy elsewhere is irrelevant. You ask why now? The answer is because we've already overshot the ability to do everything we do sustainably with the resources available. We need to get off the treadmill now and hope like hell technology and the available buffers are enough to limit the harm to 'merely' hundreds of millions dying.

RandomLensman 4y ago
Definitely not degrowth, maybe low growth if high energy stuff cannot be moved off planet and results transported back with low heat impact. (Or no other ways of cooling are found). Also, for example, innovation from growing economies elsewhere can reach back to earth. Expensive stuff that relies on growth can continue to happen and the results shared. Carrying capacity of the solar system is huge, so quite some growth to be captured there. Once it is exhausted, growth for earth and the solar system might slow down because information will have significant travel time. And we haven't even exhausted earth and earth will become uninhabitable ultimately anyway so terminal sustainability is not truly needed.
- Schroedingersat 4y ago
  Energy growth on earth must end this century. This entails growth in most primary industries also ending, as well as a large reduction in many. This is incompatible with a system where people starve and everything breaks whenever growth goes below 2%. "Stop giving everything to the people who already have stuff so we need the pie to grow at an exponential rate just to keep the share that goes to 99.99% of the world constant" isn't a hard concept.