3 ms·

What you're describing is a ponzi scheme.

lokimedes 4y ago
We see a similar effect in Europe, people live longer, and a large group is on pension, while retaining voting rights. This incentivize conservation of the status quo as we now have majority ownership of the societal future in the hands of a “rent-seeking owner class” that is not there to experience it. Controversial as it may be, I’m thinking that voting should somehow be coupled to taxable contribution to the society. Pensioners, children and other unemployed must be protected by laws instead of direct political influence.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > Pensioners, children and other unemployed must be protected by laws instead of direct political influence. Of course then nothing stops those that have the vote because they work to disenfranchise those pensioners and other unemployed (the children will be theirs as well so are likely going to be protected). Laws are indirectly made by those who vote!
  - lokimedes 4y ago
    Indeed, but I see the self-interest element in our democratic systems, showing its nasty face, now we have demographics that are bisecting on what is in the socity's future interest.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      I don't see why/how disenfranchising a large chunk of people that have contributed to society would improve this. After all you'd be telling the people that are working hard to keep things afloat that if they succeed that they will lose the vote too unless they continue to work forever. The net effect will be that the social safety net and pension schemes will be ultimately cancelled because only those that work get to vote.
      - AstralStorm 4y ago
        Unlikely, unless you somehow convince people who work that they will be able to work forever. Common sense says that sooner or later health fails and not everyone can work the same amount. "It can't happen to me" might work on teenagers.
kaashif 4y ago
The phrase "Ponzi scheme" is misused so much it has become meaningless. A Ponzi scheme is a very specific type of fraud. Ever-increasing immigration to sustain a >1 worker-to-retiree ratio is more like a pyramid scheme, but one that will take decades or maybe a century to really stop working.
- pauldenton 4y ago
  It is not a pyramid scheme either though.

We see a similar effect in Europe, people live longer, and a large group is on pension, while retaining voting rights. This incentivize conservation of the status quo as we now have majority ownership of the societal future in the hands of a “rent-seeking owner class” that is not there to experience it. Controversial as it may be, I’m thinking that voting should somehow be coupled to taxable contribution to the society. Pensioners, children and other unemployed must be protected by laws instead of direct political influence.

jacquesm 4y ago
> Pensioners, children and other unemployed must be protected by laws instead of direct political influence. Of course then nothing stops those that have the vote because they work to disenfranchise those pensioners and other unemployed (the children will be theirs as well so are likely going to be protected). Laws are indirectly made by those who vote!
- lokimedes 4y ago
  Indeed, but I see the self-interest element in our democratic systems, showing its nasty face, now we have demographics that are bisecting on what is in the socity's future interest.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    I don't see why/how disenfranchising a large chunk of people that have contributed to society would improve this. After all you'd be telling the people that are working hard to keep things afloat that if they succeed that they will lose the vote too unless they continue to work forever. The net effect will be that the social safety net and pension schemes will be ultimately cancelled because only those that work get to vote.
    - AstralStorm 4y ago
      Unlikely, unless you somehow convince people who work that they will be able to work forever. Common sense says that sooner or later health fails and not everyone can work the same amount. "It can't happen to me" might work on teenagers.

kaashif 4y ago

The phrase "Ponzi scheme" is misused so much it has become meaningless. A Ponzi scheme is a very specific type of fraud. Ever-increasing immigration to sustain a >1 worker-to-retiree ratio is more like a pyramid scheme, but one that will take decades or maybe a century to really stop working.

pauldenton 4y ago
It is not a pyramid scheme either though.