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Let's say you're deciding on a washing machine. You're arguing about washing machine A ($500) vs B ($600), and you think B will last twice as long as A. Your pa

by strken 4y ago

Let's say you're deciding on a washing machine. You're arguing about washing machine A ($500) vs B ($600), and you think B will last twice as long as A. Your partner would prefer to save $100 now even if the machine breaks later on, and doesn't want to back down either. The cost of choosing washing machine A is that it breaks at some distant time. The cost of arguing about washing machines is wasting an hour every week driving to a laundromat and paying $10 a wash, plus the hard-to-quantify strain on your relationship, for an argument you might not even win. In this situation, the hidden third option of dragging out a conflict that you might not even win could end up more costly than choosing a bad option, even if you're right. In software this happens a lot. You burn opportunity cost trying to argue for a perfect solution instead of aligning behind a flawed solution.

catchnear4321 4y ago
Cool, that seems fair. As you describe it, either washer should work. I still hate the avocado one, but I hate the laundromat even more. I can build alignment around this. If only they were all that way. If someone tells me their blender is the best washing machine, this may turn into a painful conversation. A long one. Possibly an embarrassing one. But I’m here for it. That’s a fucking blender, and I’m not going to call it a washing machine even if that’s the last decision I make here. It would be great if all of these situations were as sane as picking between two valid options. Sometimes there’s a valid one, and, well, pick your expletives for the other one. In software this happens a lot. Entire teams spinning plates because someone confused authority with experience.
maerF0x0 4y ago
> Your partner would prefer to save $100 I fully agree that in a romantic relationship there is far more at stake than any single choice. But I've found the professional world to work far differently. For starters people only stick around jobs an average of 18 months (whereas marriages get about 7 yrs). And there is far more at stake to having your choice selected in an argument at work -- promotions and subsequent pay increases are worth 10s-100s of thousand. Submissive people are frequently looked over for promotion and may miss >5 years of promoted working years. perfection was never in the discussion, but good (ie high quality) is. When I see someone arguing for a bad solution (ie both high risk & total cost of ownership expensive) it's there's actually a lot on the line. This risk factor scales with the size/brand of the business. Look at the pie in the face one company wears[1] for a security breach, whereas another gets to demonstrate their security forward posture[2]. The former likely has lost millions to a ~million dollar choice[3]. Whereas the latter has increased their brand value to the same choice. But the person who argues without end for what they think is right is often ostracized and disparaged. This is something very broken in American culture. [1]: https://www.twilio.com/blog/august-2022-social-engineering-attack https://www.twilio.com/blog/august-2022-social-engineering-a... [2]: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/cloudflare-employees-also-hit-by-hackers-behind-twilio-breach/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/cloudflare-em... [3]: 8k workers by $125 -- yubikey + cost of training ~$1M .

by strken 4y ago

catchnear4321 4y ago

Cool, that seems fair. As you describe it, either washer should work. I still hate the avocado one, but I hate the laundromat even more. I can build alignment around this. If only they were all that way. If someone tells me their blender is the best washing machine, this may turn into a painful conversation. A long one. Possibly an embarrassing one. But I’m here for it. That’s a fucking blender, and I’m not going to call it a washing machine even if that’s the last decision I make here. It would be great if all of these situations were as sane as picking between two valid options. Sometimes there’s a valid one, and, well, pick your expletives for the other one. In software this happens a lot. Entire teams spinning plates because someone confused authority with experience.

maerF0x0 4y ago

> Your partner would prefer to save $100 I fully agree that in a romantic relationship there is far more at stake than any single choice. But I've found the professional world to work far differently. For starters people only stick around jobs an average of 18 months (whereas marriages get about 7 yrs). And there is far more at stake to having your choice selected in an argument at work -- promotions and subsequent pay increases are worth 10s-100s of thousand. Submissive people are frequently looked over for promotion and may miss >5 years of promoted working years. perfection was never in the discussion, but good (ie high quality) is. When I see someone arguing for a bad solution (ie both high risk & total cost of ownership expensive) it's there's actually a lot on the line. This risk factor scales with the size/brand of the business. Look at the pie in the face one company wears[1] for a security breach, whereas another gets to demonstrate their security forward posture[2]. The former likely has lost millions to a ~million dollar choice[3]. Whereas the latter has increased their brand value to the same choice. But the person who argues without end for what they think is right is often ostracized and disparaged. This is something very broken in American culture. [1]: https://www.twilio.com/blog/august-2022-social-engineering-attack https://www.twilio.com/blog/august-2022-social-engineering-a... [2]: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/cloudflare-employees-also-hit-by-hackers-behind-twilio-breach/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/cloudflare-em... [3]: 8k workers by $125 -- yubikey + cost of training ~$1M .