3 ms·

Has anyone in the MoND world looked into the James Webb observations that seem to contradict our current theories of galaxy formation in the early universe? ie

Has anyone in the MoND world looked into the James Webb observations that seem to contradict our current theories of galaxy formation in the early universe? ie the observations seem to show more mature structures than predicted, we're finding. I've been wondering if some MoND / non-DM kind of theory may better explain these new JWST observations. - I'm not anything close to an astrophysicist, so give me some rope :-)

Covzire 4y ago
I believe 99.99% of new discoveries in astrophysics create more problems for cosmic models than they had before. Pluto shocked the scientific world in 2015 when we got up close photos of what was supposed to be a cold frozen stone, being so small and so far from the sun, but it's still geologically active, something no model could account for at the time, nor since afaik.
arcastroe 4y ago
This made me dig up an old comment I left 8 months ago regarding JWST predictions https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29488993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29488993 > the observations seem to show more mature structures than predicted Thank you for closing the loop for me! (would you happen to have a source?)
- nickpinkston 4y ago
  Nice recall! Thanks for posting this.
aeneasmackenzie 4y ago
The MOND guys are aware: https://tritonstation.com/2022/07/21/jwst-twitter-bender/ https://tritonstation.com/2022/07/21/jwst-twitter-bender/ Specifically this paper[0] is mentioned as predicting it > Remarkably, the data roughly follow the green line, which is an L* galaxy magically put in place at the inconceivably high redshift of z=10. Galaxies seem to have gotten big impossibly early. This is why you see us astronomers flipping our lids at the JWST results. Can’t happen. > Except that it can, and was predicted[0] to do so by Bob Sanders a quarter century ago: “Objects of galaxy mass are the first virialized objects to form (by z=10) and larger structure develops rapidly.” 0: https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9710335 https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9710335
- cryptonector 4y ago
  > Galaxies seem to have gotten big impossibly early. A MoND-like theory that allows the strength of gravity / inertia to vary over time can explain that. Granted, that sounds farfetched, but then, so does DM. Of course, it's easy to spend money looking for DM, and hard to spend money looking for a better theory of gravity.
  - throwawaymaths 4y ago
    Mond doesn't need that to explain early galaxies. When the matter is sparse gravitational contributions are weak and thus overwhelmingly in the O(1/r) regime and not the O(1/r^2) -- this makes gravity "seem stronger", and so stuff clumps together faster.
raattgift 4y ago
> Has anyone [in the MoND world] looked into the James Webb observations Probably. Certainly non-MoND people have: > so give me some rope Ok, here's some rope <https://telescoper.wordpress.com/2022/08/10/recalibration-of-ultra-high-redshift-galaxies/ https://telescoper.wordpress.com/2022/08/10/recalibration-of...> Telescoper is an anagram of Peter Coles. It's his blog. He's a well known physical cosmologist <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Coles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Coles>. Adams et al., authors of the preprint linked in that blog entry, are all well-known astronomers. Adams is a research associate and Observational Astronomer at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodrell_Bank_Observatory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodrell_Bank_Observatory> specializing in high-redshift galaxies, and is in several large-telescope international collaborations (ESO, SKA, MIGHTEE, LADUMA). The punchline: those seemingly super-far-away galaxies are getting much much closer as JWST's calibrations proceed according to plan.

Covzire 4y ago

I believe 99.99% of new discoveries in astrophysics create more problems for cosmic models than they had before. Pluto shocked the scientific world in 2015 when we got up close photos of what was supposed to be a cold frozen stone, being so small and so far from the sun, but it's still geologically active, something no model could account for at the time, nor since afaik.

arcastroe 4y ago

This made me dig up an old comment I left 8 months ago regarding JWST predictions https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29488993 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29488993 > the observations seem to show more mature structures than predicted Thank you for closing the loop for me! (would you happen to have a source?)

nickpinkston 4y ago
Nice recall! Thanks for posting this.

aeneasmackenzie 4y ago

The MOND guys are aware: https://tritonstation.com/2022/07/21/jwst-twitter-bender/ https://tritonstation.com/2022/07/21/jwst-twitter-bender/ Specifically this paper[0] is mentioned as predicting it > Remarkably, the data roughly follow the green line, which is an L* galaxy magically put in place at the inconceivably high redshift of z=10. Galaxies seem to have gotten big impossibly early. This is why you see us astronomers flipping our lids at the JWST results. Can’t happen. > Except that it can, and was predicted[0] to do so by Bob Sanders a quarter century ago: “Objects of galaxy mass are the first virialized objects to form (by z=10) and larger structure develops rapidly.” 0: https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9710335 https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9710335

cryptonector 4y ago
> Galaxies seem to have gotten big impossibly early. A MoND-like theory that allows the strength of gravity / inertia to vary over time can explain that. Granted, that sounds farfetched, but then, so does DM. Of course, it's easy to spend money looking for DM, and hard to spend money looking for a better theory of gravity.
- throwawaymaths 4y ago
  Mond doesn't need that to explain early galaxies. When the matter is sparse gravitational contributions are weak and thus overwhelmingly in the O(1/r) regime and not the O(1/r^2) -- this makes gravity "seem stronger", and so stuff clumps together faster.

raattgift 4y ago

> Has anyone [in the MoND world] looked into the James Webb observations Probably. Certainly non-MoND people have: > so give me some rope Ok, here's some rope <https://telescoper.wordpress.com/2022/08/10/recalibration-of-ultra-high-redshift-galaxies/ https://telescoper.wordpress.com/2022/08/10/recalibration-of...> Telescoper is an anagram of Peter Coles. It's his blog. He's a well known physical cosmologist <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Coles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Coles>. Adams et al., authors of the preprint linked in that blog entry, are all well-known astronomers. Adams is a research associate and Observational Astronomer at <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodrell_Bank_Observatory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodrell_Bank_Observatory> specializing in high-redshift galaxies, and is in several large-telescope international collaborations (ESO, SKA, MIGHTEE, LADUMA). The punchline: those seemingly super-far-away galaxies are getting much much closer as JWST's calibrations proceed according to plan.