9 ms·

This is quite concerning, from the lawsuit itself [1]: The blacklisting process was accomplished first internally at Instagram/Facebook by automated classifier

by gzer0 4y ago

This is quite concerning, from the lawsuit itself [1]: The blacklisting process was accomplished first internally at Instagram/Facebook by automated classifiers or filters, which were then submitted to a shared industry database of “hashes,” or unique digital fingerprints. This database was and is intended to flag and remove content produced by terrorists and related “Dangerous Individuals and Organizations” to curtail the spread of terrorism and violent extremism online. Where can one learn more about this database? Who decides what goes into this database? Is there a governance process? How about incorrectly identified items? We are headed back into the times of "guilty, until proven innocent" versus how it should be, "innocent until proven guilty". If the scenario was the following: letting 10 criminals go free, or having 1 innocent person imprisoned, I would always choose the latter. [1] https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3629&context=historical https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...

leaflets2 4y ago
Always choose 1 innocent person imprisoned? I guess you meant the "former" not the "latter" :-) Interesting with the hashes. Seems impossible to detect such "poisoning of the hashes" i wonder if anyone with access could ... Submit a hash of a profile photo of someone, to cause him/hey troubles?
simanyay 4y ago
I believe its managed by the GIFCT: https://gifct.org/ https://gifct.org/
- sbuccini 4y ago
  This is exactly what it is. Last I heard, a small team within FB was responsible for actually running the service itself but it could have gotten spun out since then.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  Oh lovely, you have to pay to get a copy of the list. Gotta make sure only the entrenched big tech companies can effectively filter out extremist content, huh?
sneak 4y ago
The governance process is that content producers (ie you and me and our circles) need to stop donating free content to centralized automated censorship platforms run by billionaires, because they fail-deadly for our society once they become the planet default.
pessimizer 4y ago
You know that there's a US terrorist watch list with a million names on it, no due process necessary to be added to it, and no discernible process to be removed from it? That's aside from local gang membership lists, which have the same complete lack of safeguards. We're not heading back into anything. We love blacklists.
- beebmam 4y ago
  A million names? Can you point me to evidence that this terrorist watch list is this large?
  - Cerium 4y ago
    "As of 2017, there were about 1.16 million people on the TSDB; the great majority are foreigners, but the list also includes approximately 4,600 U.S. persons." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_Screening_Database https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_Screening_Database
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Second hit on google: https://www.thetrace.org/2016/06/fbi-terrorist-watch-list-guns/ https://www.thetrace.org/2016/06/fbi-terrorist-watch-list-gu... "The FBI’s Terrorist Screening Database is the U.S. government’s primary watch list, and what people usually mean when they refer to the terrorist watch list. It contains about 1 million records. About 5,000 of those records — 0.5 percent — are about Americans."
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- WalterBright 4y ago
  I seriously doubt there are more than 1000 potential terrorists that are US citizens. Any list with far more than that on it is suspect.
  - pigtailgirl 4y ago
mikrotikker 4y ago
https://theintercept.com/document/2021/10/12/facebook-dangerous-individuals-and-organizations-list-reproduced-snapshot/ https://theintercept.com/document/2021/10/12/facebook-danger...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
formerly_proven 4y ago
This sounds exactly like the CSAM detection lists, you can go back to the threads when Apple introduced device-side CSAM scanning for arguments about that.
asdfsfkwqe 4y ago
elevaet 4y ago
> If the scenario was the following: letting 10 criminals go free, or having 1 innocent person imprisoned, I would always choose the latter. Really? It seems like you meant the former.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by gzer0 4y ago

leaflets2 4y ago

Always choose 1 innocent person imprisoned? I guess you meant the "former" not the "latter" :-) Interesting with the hashes. Seems impossible to detect such "poisoning of the hashes" i wonder if anyone with access could ... Submit a hash of a profile photo of someone, to cause him/hey troubles?

simanyay 4y ago

I believe its managed by the GIFCT: https://gifct.org/ https://gifct.org/

sbuccini 4y ago
This is exactly what it is. Last I heard, a small team within FB was responsible for actually running the service itself but it could have gotten spun out since then.
phendrenad2 4y ago
Oh lovely, you have to pay to get a copy of the list. Gotta make sure only the entrenched big tech companies can effectively filter out extremist content, huh?

sneak 4y ago

The governance process is that content producers (ie you and me and our circles) need to stop donating free content to centralized automated censorship platforms run by billionaires, because they fail-deadly for our society once they become the planet default.

pessimizer 4y ago

You know that there's a US terrorist watch list with a million names on it, no due process necessary to be added to it, and no discernible process to be removed from it? That's aside from local gang membership lists, which have the same complete lack of safeguards. We're not heading back into anything. We love blacklists.

beebmam 4y ago
A million names? Can you point me to evidence that this terrorist watch list is this large?
- Cerium 4y ago
  "As of 2017, there were about 1.16 million people on the TSDB; the great majority are foreigners, but the list also includes approximately 4,600 U.S. persons." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_Screening_Database https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_Screening_Database
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Second hit on google: https://www.thetrace.org/2016/06/fbi-terrorist-watch-list-guns/ https://www.thetrace.org/2016/06/fbi-terrorist-watch-list-gu... "The FBI’s Terrorist Screening Database is the U.S. government’s primary watch list, and what people usually mean when they refer to the terrorist watch list. It contains about 1 million records. About 5,000 of those records — 0.5 percent — are about Americans."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
WalterBright 4y ago
I seriously doubt there are more than 1000 potential terrorists that are US citizens. Any list with far more than that on it is suspect.
- pigtailgirl 4y ago

mikrotikker 4y ago

https://theintercept.com/document/2021/10/12/facebook-dangerous-individuals-and-organizations-list-reproduced-snapshot/ https://theintercept.com/document/2021/10/12/facebook-danger...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

formerly_proven 4y ago

This sounds exactly like the CSAM detection lists, you can go back to the threads when Apple introduced device-side CSAM scanning for arguments about that.

asdfsfkwqe 4y ago

elevaet 4y ago

> If the scenario was the following: letting 10 criminals go free, or having 1 innocent person imprisoned, I would always choose the latter. Really? It seems like you meant the former.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]