4 ms·

I like where you’re coming from, it’s just this specific example - should we rewrite stuff in react - really strikes me as something an engineering manager shou

I like where you’re coming from, it’s just this specific example - should we rewrite stuff in react - really strikes me as something an engineering manager shouldn’t be asking. “I heard about this implementation detail and wonder if we should be doing it like that.” Just much prefer a boss who can parse those questions himself

morelisp 4y ago
I guess it depends on the kind of manager it was; it might or might not be an EM, or a highly technical EM might or might not have been appropriate. If you have 25 years of experience, even if you're still an IC you should probably have some direct relationships with non-technical managers, especially if you're working in frontend and B2C. You might not even have a technical manager depending on the company size. I have fielded plenty of similar questions from technical EMs, and even CTOs, when it's way outside their area of expertise. I've also seen ICs give similar answers to the author to the mild shock of the manager, who then has to gently respond with something like "well, John mentioned in the standup today that he noticed 10s p99 spikes on the cart page, while investigating what Paula from the BI team reported in the planning meeting yesterday, that abandoned items are up 30% in the past month..."
- larve 4y ago
  I am not sure why the manager should be shocked if an engineer asks for these kinds of clarification. Those are exactly the info I need to point out that this might very well be a problem with service XYZ, and that we might need to scale up the database instead of rewriting the frontend in react. My react frontend is made up, but my actual example is the CTO (no background in software) suggesting we move our embedded product from linux to android because "our updater is broken and i read that android has a great updater," while the issue was faulty flash chips where the brownout protection bit could not be set. (Moving from linux to android for an embedded product means you basically have to rewrite absolutely everything since the userland is different, for a stack that is under the control of a single company, and is rarely used outside of mobile devices and automotive. And it still won't fix broken flash chips). This is an order of magnitude more egregious than the react example I transformed it into, and also why I left the company. If I can't present my expertise and get listened to for such an important decision, there really is nowhere for me to go.
  - asmithmd1 4y ago
    my actual example is the CTO (no background in software) You seem to be very dismissive of people when they opine outside of where you think they are qualified to have opinions, and yet you give opinions where you might not have sufficient perspective. Moving from linux to android for an embedded product means you basically have to rewrite absolutely everything... Great, that is information the CTO needs to know. for a stack that is under the control of a single company, and is rarely used outside of mobile devices and automotive. Here the CTO has more perspective then you do. Is the company about to sign a partnership with an Android shop? Is the company contemplating moving into a new product area? Yes, the ultimate problem would not have been fixed by moving to Android, but that does not make your opinion somehow factually right. Before reacting, try assuming the person making suggestions has valid reasons for making them and try to figure out what those reasons are.

morelisp 4y ago

I guess it depends on the kind of manager it was; it might or might not be an EM, or a highly technical EM might or might not have been appropriate. If you have 25 years of experience, even if you're still an IC you should probably have some direct relationships with non-technical managers, especially if you're working in frontend and B2C. You might not even have a technical manager depending on the company size. I have fielded plenty of similar questions from technical EMs, and even CTOs, when it's way outside their area of expertise. I've also seen ICs give similar answers to the author to the mild shock of the manager, who then has to gently respond with something like "well, John mentioned in the standup today that he noticed 10s p99 spikes on the cart page, while investigating what Paula from the BI team reported in the planning meeting yesterday, that abandoned items are up 30% in the past month..."

larve 4y ago
I am not sure why the manager should be shocked if an engineer asks for these kinds of clarification. Those are exactly the info I need to point out that this might very well be a problem with service XYZ, and that we might need to scale up the database instead of rewriting the frontend in react. My react frontend is made up, but my actual example is the CTO (no background in software) suggesting we move our embedded product from linux to android because "our updater is broken and i read that android has a great updater," while the issue was faulty flash chips where the brownout protection bit could not be set. (Moving from linux to android for an embedded product means you basically have to rewrite absolutely everything since the userland is different, for a stack that is under the control of a single company, and is rarely used outside of mobile devices and automotive. And it still won't fix broken flash chips). This is an order of magnitude more egregious than the react example I transformed it into, and also why I left the company. If I can't present my expertise and get listened to for such an important decision, there really is nowhere for me to go.
- asmithmd1 4y ago
  my actual example is the CTO (no background in software) You seem to be very dismissive of people when they opine outside of where you think they are qualified to have opinions, and yet you give opinions where you might not have sufficient perspective. Moving from linux to android for an embedded product means you basically have to rewrite absolutely everything... Great, that is information the CTO needs to know. for a stack that is under the control of a single company, and is rarely used outside of mobile devices and automotive. Here the CTO has more perspective then you do. Is the company about to sign a partnership with an Android shop? Is the company contemplating moving into a new product area? Yes, the ultimate problem would not have been fixed by moving to Android, but that does not make your opinion somehow factually right. Before reacting, try assuming the person making suggestions has valid reasons for making them and try to figure out what those reasons are.