4 ms·

Maybe Trump shouldn't crime so much. I for one want to live in a country where even ex-Presidents can become convicts, where no-one is above the law. Why won't

Maybe Trump shouldn't crime so much. I for one want to live in a country where even ex-Presidents can become convicts, where no-one is above the law. Why won't Trump show us the warrant? Does he have something to hide? And let's be clear here: I can't speak for you, but a lot of people on the right mocked all the folks marching (and yes sometimes rioting) over police violating people's civil and human rights. Not just mocked, but said that they should be given a beat-down by the police. Hell, Trump himself said that. To see all these same folks clutching their pearls over the FBI executing a lawful search warrant, signed by a federal judge, in which no-one was physically harmed, is just flabbergasting. That some are now calling for violent civil war is disgusting.

mercy_dude 4y ago
> Maybe Trump shouldn't crime so much Where are the charges? I keep hearing he committed crimes without any charges laid against him. I thought we live in a country where the Justice system is based on innocent till proven guilty. > Why won’t Trum show us the warrant That’s not how our Justice system is supposed to work. Burden of proof lies to the state. It is incredible to watch the fundamental concepts of western Justice system such as innocent till proven guilty, proof beyond reasonable doubt, burden of proof on plantiff being casually thrown out when it’s on the other side as if those are not going to come bite them. Once you throw out the foundations of the Justice system away, you become just as you said, like Turkey. Or like Brazil. Where if you think the opposition has a solid chance of winning against you just throw them to jail. > where ex-presidents can become convicts Fully Agree. But not at the expense of half of the country by mocking their political beliefs so the guy they voted for can’t run. I don’t question the warrant but why send agents? Why use the FBI even and not let the regular rule of law play out as it is? There was even another case recently where even the judge asked why FBI had to show up unannounced and exert their full force [1] Making the Justice system and other federal agencies blatantly political has exactly the same problem as you outlined - when a corrupt official does get indicted because of an actual crime they committed many people would question the motive. And if we are going to set the precedence by the way making presidents convicts, how about we start with a guy who lied to his entire country to send the country to war and cause thousands of lives? Or some guys who bailed out the wall street at the expense of the little guys in 2009? Or the representatives in Congress who blatantly uses insider information to get rich [2]. [1] https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/07/15/judge-questions-feds-tactics-in-navarro-arrest-00046085 https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/07/15/judge-questions... [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-stock-act-violations-senate-house-trading-2021-9?amp https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-stock-act-violation...
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  We're all talking about what happened, but the DOJ as a rule doesn't comment on on-going investigations. The warrant itself is all we have to go by. It is up to Donald Trump to decide whether he wants to release it to the public, but it would answer a lot of questions, and given the public interest, I think he should, particularly since he, and a lot of Republicans, are making some extreme commentary in response. Publishing a warrant doesn't say you are guilty or innocent, btw. If Donald Trump had possession of highly secret classified documents, the FBI can't just ask for them by subpoena. Think about it. A subpoena means that Trump, his lawyers and other representatives, etc. would all handle Top Secret documents. Even Trump handling them is problematic since he doesn't have clearance. The only way to do it is for the person to voluntarily give up the documents when the FBI come to call (as they did back in June), or they can go get a search warrant, and take them.

mercy_dude 4y ago

> Maybe Trump shouldn't crime so much Where are the charges? I keep hearing he committed crimes without any charges laid against him. I thought we live in a country where the Justice system is based on innocent till proven guilty. > Why won’t Trum show us the warrant That’s not how our Justice system is supposed to work. Burden of proof lies to the state. It is incredible to watch the fundamental concepts of western Justice system such as innocent till proven guilty, proof beyond reasonable doubt, burden of proof on plantiff being casually thrown out when it’s on the other side as if those are not going to come bite them. Once you throw out the foundations of the Justice system away, you become just as you said, like Turkey. Or like Brazil. Where if you think the opposition has a solid chance of winning against you just throw them to jail. > where ex-presidents can become convicts Fully Agree. But not at the expense of half of the country by mocking their political beliefs so the guy they voted for can’t run. I don’t question the warrant but why send agents? Why use the FBI even and not let the regular rule of law play out as it is? There was even another case recently where even the judge asked why FBI had to show up unannounced and exert their full force [1] Making the Justice system and other federal agencies blatantly political has exactly the same problem as you outlined - when a corrupt official does get indicted because of an actual crime they committed many people would question the motive. And if we are going to set the precedence by the way making presidents convicts, how about we start with a guy who lied to his entire country to send the country to war and cause thousands of lives? Or some guys who bailed out the wall street at the expense of the little guys in 2009? Or the representatives in Congress who blatantly uses insider information to get rich [2]. [1] https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/07/15/judge-questions-feds-tactics-in-navarro-arrest-00046085 https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/07/15/judge-questions... [2] https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-stock-act-violations-senate-house-trading-2021-9?amp https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-stock-act-violation...

jonnycomputer 4y ago
We're all talking about what happened, but the DOJ as a rule doesn't comment on on-going investigations. The warrant itself is all we have to go by. It is up to Donald Trump to decide whether he wants to release it to the public, but it would answer a lot of questions, and given the public interest, I think he should, particularly since he, and a lot of Republicans, are making some extreme commentary in response. Publishing a warrant doesn't say you are guilty or innocent, btw. If Donald Trump had possession of highly secret classified documents, the FBI can't just ask for them by subpoena. Think about it. A subpoena means that Trump, his lawyers and other representatives, etc. would all handle Top Secret documents. Even Trump handling them is problematic since he doesn't have clearance. The only way to do it is for the person to voluntarily give up the documents when the FBI come to call (as they did back in June), or they can go get a search warrant, and take them.