5 ms·

words no longer mean things. We’re living in a world where nearly everything is low quality. It’s the old Sam Vimes narrative about being poor being expensive

by dpeck 4y ago

words no longer mean things. We’re living in a world where nearly everything is low quality. It’s the old Sam Vimes narrative about being poor being expensive, but it is currently challenging for people of any means to find a quality product without loads of research and expertise. And even then, it’s subject to change as good brands get bought by someone larger or new management comes in and cuts quality to increase margins.

itsoktocry 4y ago
>We’re living in a world where nearly everything is low quality. Can you actually list items that, on a price-adjusted level, are lower quality? Nearly everything is of higher quality and cheaper than it ever was.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  Fridges come to mind, but it depends on what you mean by “quality”. I had a 8 year old fridge, and attempted to replace a shelf bracket that broke because the plastic was flimsy - no parts available after 5 years. By 9 years old the brackets that held the large fan in the back of it in place had crumbled to dust. Meanwhile fridges from the 1960s are still humming along fine. The crumbly new fridge is more energy efficient by a long shot than that workhorse hold fridge - so it does depend on what you consider quality, but longevity and repairability are definitely major factors in what I consider quality.
  - throwbigdata 4y ago
    Are there quality new fridges? Are Subzero fridges quality?
    - NegativeLatency 4y ago
      I’ve heard they’re becoming less reliable than they used to be
    - _ea1k 4y ago
      Its weird that noone really deeply analyzes this. Munro started a teardown, but it ended somewhat abruptly and with only fairly surface level analysis, IMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAYj6m9QtDU&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAYj6m9QtDU&t=1s
  - alach11 4y ago
    > Meanwhile fridges from the 1960s are still humming along fine. Fridges that you see from the 1960s are still humming along fine. All the ones that broke decades ago get none of your attention. This is survivorship bias. Reliability of products like fridges has gone up immensely over the last 50 years.
    - cameldrv 4y ago
      I'm not sure about the 1960s, but generally all appliances have gotten quite a bit cheaper and had less durability and repairability since the eighties. There was a step change in the late nineties both in price and quality when production moved to China.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      That might be true. But I don't think there will be ANY of the model of fridge I had running at 20 years old. Survivorship bias can't account for plastic that crumbles from being heat-cycled.
  - Blackthorn 4y ago
    On the bright side, a shelf bracket is a pretty cheap wear item to replace. Can be 3d printed. It's not like any of the electronics went bad.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      If I had a 3D printer, yes. But like most people, I don't have a 3d printer. $200-$1200 + a few days of learning trial and error is starting to get into the price range of just buying a new fridge.
      - sfink 4y ago
        Or you can hack it with Sugru: <https://sugru.com/what-is-sugru https://sugru.com/what-is-sugru>. Not necessarily the best for aesthetics, unless you're a clay sculptor hobbyist or something, but it sticks tight to almost everything. Though as per the website: "Sugru does not bond to oily plastics like polypropylene, polyethylene or Teflon." I've used it for all kinds of things. I tend to reinforce it if it's load-bearing (eg I made a bracket for my router under my desk, but molded the Sugru around a screw that I put in the desk). Each pack is very small, so it'll only be enough for corners or wrapping around wires very close to the end or whatever.
        kennywinker 4y ago
        I’ve not had good luck with sugru. I’ve used it to repair a couple cables that started fraying near one end… the weird lump of sugru covered where i put it, but didn’t stop the fraying - bought me maybe another couple months of use.
- realo 4y ago
  Houses? Look at all the nice victorian houses built 100-150 years ago, for ‘average’ professionals. Solid wood doors everywhere, nicely finished walls , brass fixtures etc… Compare this with the garbage we have in today’s McMansions … and weep.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    Survivorship bias somewhat. There were plenty of people living in literal shacks 150 years ago.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      Did those people buy the shacks for $1,000,000? Because you can buy an newbuilt apartment in London for a million dollars and it will be absolute shit. Recently builders forgot to build balconies, forgot to lay down internet cable for a block of flats, and built and entire block wrong way round. They are worse than an average javascript app! https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/16419384/persimmon-builds-flats-wrong-way-round/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/16419384/persimmon-buil...
      - kyleee 4y ago
        these cowboy builders should learn to code
- _ea1k 4y ago
  I've been saying the same for a while, but there are definitely some strange things going on with product quality and replacement cost. Eg, my microwave has a vent cover on the top that tends to crack and fall off after less than 3 years. They company wants >$90 for the lightweight, simple plastic part. I have a fridge with a long lasting LED light. The proprietary board that its mounted to failed after less than 4 years. We've somehow managed to replace short lasting components (filament bulbs) with components that last longer (led) but fail in more costly ways. Somehow the manufacturer gets away with blaming laws (incandescent bulbs were banned, we say!) while also profiting from building things too cheaply.
tinco 4y ago
Maybe that's true for small consumer expenses, but for things like shop vacs it's really not true. If you spend $100 on a shop vac you'll get a low end shop vac. If you spend $400 or more, you'll get a Bosch or a Festool or whatever the high end vacs are in the US, and it'll be a great shop vac. The amazing thing is that you can actually get decent shop vacs for around $150.
- walterbell 4y ago
  Which would you recommend around $150?
  - tinco 4y ago
    I really like my Karcher, I've used it for about 5 years now. It's been through a full gutting of my house and the subsequent rebuild and refinish. If I had more money to spend I'd get an M-class vac, but the cheapest one is a Festool for 560 euros. It's not often that Festool is the cheapest in a category. (I think the M/L class system is specific to The Netherlands: https://mastertools.nl/collections/bouwstofzuiger?refinementList%5Bproduct_type%5D%5B0%5D=Bouwstofzuiger%20M-klasse https://mastertools.nl/collections/bouwstofzuiger?refinement... basically M class means it's safe to use by professionals who work with stone dust for 8 hours per day).

by dpeck 4y ago

itsoktocry 4y ago

>We’re living in a world where nearly everything is low quality. Can you actually list items that, on a price-adjusted level, are lower quality? Nearly everything is of higher quality and cheaper than it ever was.

kennywinker 4y ago
Fridges come to mind, but it depends on what you mean by “quality”. I had a 8 year old fridge, and attempted to replace a shelf bracket that broke because the plastic was flimsy - no parts available after 5 years. By 9 years old the brackets that held the large fan in the back of it in place had crumbled to dust. Meanwhile fridges from the 1960s are still humming along fine. The crumbly new fridge is more energy efficient by a long shot than that workhorse hold fridge - so it does depend on what you consider quality, but longevity and repairability are definitely major factors in what I consider quality.
- throwbigdata 4y ago
  Are there quality new fridges? Are Subzero fridges quality?
  - NegativeLatency 4y ago
    I’ve heard they’re becoming less reliable than they used to be
  - _ea1k 4y ago
    Its weird that noone really deeply analyzes this. Munro started a teardown, but it ended somewhat abruptly and with only fairly surface level analysis, IMO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAYj6m9QtDU&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAYj6m9QtDU&t=1s
- alach11 4y ago
  > Meanwhile fridges from the 1960s are still humming along fine. Fridges that you see from the 1960s are still humming along fine. All the ones that broke decades ago get none of your attention. This is survivorship bias. Reliability of products like fridges has gone up immensely over the last 50 years.
  - cameldrv 4y ago
    I'm not sure about the 1960s, but generally all appliances have gotten quite a bit cheaper and had less durability and repairability since the eighties. There was a step change in the late nineties both in price and quality when production moved to China.
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    That might be true. But I don't think there will be ANY of the model of fridge I had running at 20 years old. Survivorship bias can't account for plastic that crumbles from being heat-cycled.
- Blackthorn 4y ago
  On the bright side, a shelf bracket is a pretty cheap wear item to replace. Can be 3d printed. It's not like any of the electronics went bad.
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    If I had a 3D printer, yes. But like most people, I don't have a 3d printer. $200-$1200 + a few days of learning trial and error is starting to get into the price range of just buying a new fridge.
    - sfink 4y ago
      Or you can hack it with Sugru: <https://sugru.com/what-is-sugru https://sugru.com/what-is-sugru>. Not necessarily the best for aesthetics, unless you're a clay sculptor hobbyist or something, but it sticks tight to almost everything. Though as per the website: "Sugru does not bond to oily plastics like polypropylene, polyethylene or Teflon." I've used it for all kinds of things. I tend to reinforce it if it's load-bearing (eg I made a bracket for my router under my desk, but molded the Sugru around a screw that I put in the desk). Each pack is very small, so it'll only be enough for corners or wrapping around wires very close to the end or whatever.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        I’ve not had good luck with sugru. I’ve used it to repair a couple cables that started fraying near one end… the weird lump of sugru covered where i put it, but didn’t stop the fraying - bought me maybe another couple months of use.
realo 4y ago
Houses? Look at all the nice victorian houses built 100-150 years ago, for ‘average’ professionals. Solid wood doors everywhere, nicely finished walls , brass fixtures etc… Compare this with the garbage we have in today’s McMansions … and weep.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Survivorship bias somewhat. There were plenty of people living in literal shacks 150 years ago.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    Did those people buy the shacks for $1,000,000? Because you can buy an newbuilt apartment in London for a million dollars and it will be absolute shit. Recently builders forgot to build balconies, forgot to lay down internet cable for a block of flats, and built and entire block wrong way round. They are worse than an average javascript app! https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/16419384/persimmon-builds-flats-wrong-way-round/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/uknews/16419384/persimmon-buil...
    - kyleee 4y ago
      these cowboy builders should learn to code
_ea1k 4y ago
I've been saying the same for a while, but there are definitely some strange things going on with product quality and replacement cost. Eg, my microwave has a vent cover on the top that tends to crack and fall off after less than 3 years. They company wants >$90 for the lightweight, simple plastic part. I have a fridge with a long lasting LED light. The proprietary board that its mounted to failed after less than 4 years. We've somehow managed to replace short lasting components (filament bulbs) with components that last longer (led) but fail in more costly ways. Somehow the manufacturer gets away with blaming laws (incandescent bulbs were banned, we say!) while also profiting from building things too cheaply.

tinco 4y ago

Maybe that's true for small consumer expenses, but for things like shop vacs it's really not true. If you spend $100 on a shop vac you'll get a low end shop vac. If you spend $400 or more, you'll get a Bosch or a Festool or whatever the high end vacs are in the US, and it'll be a great shop vac. The amazing thing is that you can actually get decent shop vacs for around $150.

walterbell 4y ago
Which would you recommend around $150?
- tinco 4y ago
  I really like my Karcher, I've used it for about 5 years now. It's been through a full gutting of my house and the subsequent rebuild and refinish. If I had more money to spend I'd get an M-class vac, but the cheapest one is a Festool for 560 euros. It's not often that Festool is the cheapest in a category. (I think the M/L class system is specific to The Netherlands: https://mastertools.nl/collections/bouwstofzuiger?refinementList%5Bproduct_type%5D%5B0%5D=Bouwstofzuiger%20M-klasse https://mastertools.nl/collections/bouwstofzuiger?refinement... basically M class means it's safe to use by professionals who work with stone dust for 8 hours per day).