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That brings back memories, I was on the bleeding edge of CP/M and all that stuff. ...And I still remember the fight I had with customs officials when they want

That brings back memories, I was on the bleeding edge of CP/M and all that stuff. ...And I still remember the fight I had with customs officials when they wanted to charge me huge import duties on a set of CP/M Plus 8" floppies that I ordered from the US. After an argument I won and they relented and dropped the duties - I told them to shove the disks you know where and said I'd download the software via telephone line (a novel concept in those days). They then threatened me with attempting to violate customs regulations but it turned out there was no regulation prohibiting importing by telephone! Victories like that are so sweet. CP/M, CP/M-86 and Tim Paterson's/Seattle Computer Products' DOS (SB-86) which I bought from Lifeboat Associates in NY were the OSes for my CompuPro Godbout dual processor S-100 system. Those were the days when we actually had control over our computing equipment. It's tragic they're now gone. __ Edit: This is an opportunity to again remember the loss of Bill Godbout of whom I've met and who died tragically in the Camp Fire of 2018: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Godbout https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Godbout

wlindley 4y ago
>> Those were the days when we actually had control over our computing equipment. It's tragic they're now gone. << Not at all. Switch to Linux (I did, 20+ years ago) and decline to use anything with "smart" in the name, much less give money every month any company that is furthering that perception. Be in control. Encourage others to do the same.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  Linux gives you more control, but it's a far cry from a CP/M or DOS environment. For one thing, those computing systems were much simpler, so small changes went a long way. You can still accomplish the same level of control by only using the Linux terminal. To the average user, Linux is just another opinionated, effectively non-modular, effectively source-available stack. Control over your environment is handed over to the collective, instead of a corporation.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    Agreed. See my comment in reply to wlindley.
- bogantech 4y ago
  Software is only half of the equation
- bitwize 4y ago
  Even when running Linux, people don't understand let alone control their machines anymore. There are components of your computer which, by design, allow third parties to seize control of it irrespective of the OS you run. The last understandable practical computer was probably the Amiga. And AmigaOS was better understood than Linux despite being closed source, so open source was never a sine qua non in the Amiga community the way it is in the Linux community.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    "Even when running Linux, people don't understand let alone control their machines anymore." Very true. This fact was encompassed in my comment abeit not specifically stated - see my reply to wlindley. Also, the fact is that Linux is now so big and complex that I doubt if any one person fully understands it - not even Linus. This is a far cry from Assembler on an S-100 system where the 'chicken & egg' problem was common. If you couldn't compile the source you couldn't get a 'C:>' to edit the source or run the compiler. By the time one had solved these problems one knew one was actually in control of one's system and not vice versa! :-)
- hilbert42 4y ago
  I too use Linux and have done so for at least as long as you. I use it for everything from servers, the desktop and Raspberry Pi computers, etc. Why wouldn't I? After getting one's hands dirty with Assembler, S-100 and embedded systems there's little other option. I was speaking metaphorically about the computing industry generally and the way that almost every aspect of it has become proprietary and closed. Yes, we've open software but I'm constantly reminded of the problem whenever people come to me for help with their PCs and laptops running Windows and I find myself of limited use due to the closed nature of both their hardware and software - not to mention the lack of documentation. The same goes for my phones: having to root every phone I get to de-Google it and make it private is no longer fun but an annoying chore. At least we're able to do it, unfortunately most of the population isn't in our fortunate position to do so. Edit: I take your point about encouraging others to do so and I've been doing that for years but I've had limited success outside a select group within the tech community. Even within this group I've found considerable reticence to make the change. It's not as if they're not up to the task but rather it's too much trouble - acquiescing is much easier, especially so when they considerer that they've more important things to do. The fact is it's often hard to make the change and it often involves a great deal of effort. Linux doesn't help either - when I ask my technical colleagues why they don't move to Linux more often than not they'll reply that it's just too different to Windows in every way and that they haven't the time or commitment to do so along with the rider that they'd also have to change everything including their software and set-ups.
forinti 4y ago
In Brazil, everything related to books and newspapers is tax exempt. So people would buy foreign software as a manual that by chance came with a CD with some software. Some games were sold as magazines too. One famous singer started selling his music as a magazine with a bonus CD.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  "In Brazil, everything related to books and newspapers is tax exempt." So they should be - everywhere. But that incident was a long time ago and there have been many changes in Australia's import laws since then - WTO, free trade agreements etc. In those days and before, import tariffs were enormous and very easily obtained if you were an Australian manufacturer - all that was needed to obtain a tariff was for a company to say it could manufacture a product, it didn't have to actually do so. Luckily, that nonsence has long gone.
  - hilbert42 4y ago
    I'm truly curious, would the downvoter please explain why this statement brought offense - was what I said just too innocuous?
garyrob 4y ago
I had a Godbout machine! Fond memories. I ran CP/M and MP/M on it. I didn't know he died in the Camp Fire. Awful.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  Terrible really, it's hard to think of a worse way of dying.
ngcc_hk 4y ago
Still remember those days when overseas fax and phone require special permission (not sure about cable :-))) as they are expensive. As IT guys, we start to do something new called internet which seems can connect to overseas !! And the admin guy found out … and they sort of require us for every dial up “request” to ask senior management approval. You know overseas. Expensive. to avoid the expensive fees. Need a bit of fight for awhile. Those were the days.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  Yeah, right. Though one consolation in my case (had it been necessary), single density 8" floppies only carried a tiny 128k despite their large size! My-my how thing have changed, nowadays I can buy a micro-SDXC with 1TB storage and it's so small that if I drop it I'll likely lose it. The next generation micro-SDUC has a whopping capacity limit of several orders of magnitude more -128TB. Sending all that down a 600-ohm copper line would be somewhat tedious methinks. :-)

wlindley 4y ago

>> Those were the days when we actually had control over our computing equipment. It's tragic they're now gone. << Not at all. Switch to Linux (I did, 20+ years ago) and decline to use anything with "smart" in the name, much less give money every month any company that is furthering that perception. Be in control. Encourage others to do the same.

phendrenad2 4y ago
Linux gives you more control, but it's a far cry from a CP/M or DOS environment. For one thing, those computing systems were much simpler, so small changes went a long way. You can still accomplish the same level of control by only using the Linux terminal. To the average user, Linux is just another opinionated, effectively non-modular, effectively source-available stack. Control over your environment is handed over to the collective, instead of a corporation.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  Agreed. See my comment in reply to wlindley.
bogantech 4y ago
Software is only half of the equation
bitwize 4y ago
Even when running Linux, people don't understand let alone control their machines anymore. There are components of your computer which, by design, allow third parties to seize control of it irrespective of the OS you run. The last understandable practical computer was probably the Amiga. And AmigaOS was better understood than Linux despite being closed source, so open source was never a sine qua non in the Amiga community the way it is in the Linux community.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  "Even when running Linux, people don't understand let alone control their machines anymore." Very true. This fact was encompassed in my comment abeit not specifically stated - see my reply to wlindley. Also, the fact is that Linux is now so big and complex that I doubt if any one person fully understands it - not even Linus. This is a far cry from Assembler on an S-100 system where the 'chicken & egg' problem was common. If you couldn't compile the source you couldn't get a 'C:>' to edit the source or run the compiler. By the time one had solved these problems one knew one was actually in control of one's system and not vice versa! :-)
hilbert42 4y ago
I too use Linux and have done so for at least as long as you. I use it for everything from servers, the desktop and Raspberry Pi computers, etc. Why wouldn't I? After getting one's hands dirty with Assembler, S-100 and embedded systems there's little other option. I was speaking metaphorically about the computing industry generally and the way that almost every aspect of it has become proprietary and closed. Yes, we've open software but I'm constantly reminded of the problem whenever people come to me for help with their PCs and laptops running Windows and I find myself of limited use due to the closed nature of both their hardware and software - not to mention the lack of documentation. The same goes for my phones: having to root every phone I get to de-Google it and make it private is no longer fun but an annoying chore. At least we're able to do it, unfortunately most of the population isn't in our fortunate position to do so. Edit: I take your point about encouraging others to do so and I've been doing that for years but I've had limited success outside a select group within the tech community. Even within this group I've found considerable reticence to make the change. It's not as if they're not up to the task but rather it's too much trouble - acquiescing is much easier, especially so when they considerer that they've more important things to do. The fact is it's often hard to make the change and it often involves a great deal of effort. Linux doesn't help either - when I ask my technical colleagues why they don't move to Linux more often than not they'll reply that it's just too different to Windows in every way and that they haven't the time or commitment to do so along with the rider that they'd also have to change everything including their software and set-ups.

forinti 4y ago

In Brazil, everything related to books and newspapers is tax exempt. So people would buy foreign software as a manual that by chance came with a CD with some software. Some games were sold as magazines too. One famous singer started selling his music as a magazine with a bonus CD.

hilbert42 4y ago
"In Brazil, everything related to books and newspapers is tax exempt." So they should be - everywhere. But that incident was a long time ago and there have been many changes in Australia's import laws since then - WTO, free trade agreements etc. In those days and before, import tariffs were enormous and very easily obtained if you were an Australian manufacturer - all that was needed to obtain a tariff was for a company to say it could manufacture a product, it didn't have to actually do so. Luckily, that nonsence has long gone.
- hilbert42 4y ago
  I'm truly curious, would the downvoter please explain why this statement brought offense - was what I said just too innocuous?

garyrob 4y ago

I had a Godbout machine! Fond memories. I ran CP/M and MP/M on it. I didn't know he died in the Camp Fire. Awful.

hilbert42 4y ago
Terrible really, it's hard to think of a worse way of dying.

ngcc_hk 4y ago

Still remember those days when overseas fax and phone require special permission (not sure about cable :-))) as they are expensive. As IT guys, we start to do something new called internet which seems can connect to overseas !! And the admin guy found out … and they sort of require us for every dial up “request” to ask senior management approval. You know overseas. Expensive. to avoid the expensive fees. Need a bit of fight for awhile. Those were the days.

hilbert42 4y ago
Yeah, right. Though one consolation in my case (had it been necessary), single density 8" floppies only carried a tiny 128k despite their large size! My-my how thing have changed, nowadays I can buy a micro-SDXC with 1TB storage and it's so small that if I drop it I'll likely lose it. The next generation micro-SDUC has a whopping capacity limit of several orders of magnitude more -128TB. Sending all that down a 600-ohm copper line would be somewhat tedious methinks. :-)