4 ms·

I think the last two generations have gone through stressful times and developed "learned helplessness". I know I did at some point speaking as a millennial. W

I think the last two generations have gone through stressful times and developed "learned helplessness". I know I did at some point speaking as a millennial. While millennials are old enough now to appreciate compounding wealth, gen Z still has a few more years until that happens on average. Most people start actively investing in their 30s. Instead of helplessness, there is the idea of "learned hopefulness" to take a more proactive approach to one's future, even in the bleakest of times. A good way to visualize that is by looking at the S&P 500 all-time graph and getting into the habit of regularly investing a modest amount as you skill up and expand your earning potential with age.

qsort 4y ago
It's the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course the future is going to be bleak and uncertain if you talk yourself into this weird idea that you don't need savings. Start investing the day you get your first job and let the exponential function do what it does best.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  What would you suggest people invest in right now ? Property? Demographic collapses incoming in multiple developed countries, there will be a surplus of land in a decade or two? Climate change, where do you buy that's safe? Shares? Going backwards, lots of uncertainty, potential war /conflict about to break out in the pacific.High inflation, interest rates. I sold all my shares a few months back, not looking like the best of times to get back in, not the worst either. Gold?
  - qsort 4y ago
    > What would you suggest people invest in right now ? A mix of high quality long term bonds and stocks, depending on the desired risk profile, the same boring answer you'll get from anybody else. > Demographic collapses incoming in multiple developed countries, there will be a surplus of land in a decade or two? Very much a fantasy. > Shares? Going backwards, lots of uncertainty, potential war /conflict about to break out in the pacific.High inflation, interest rates. The idea is to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. I have 40+ years of work ahead of me. We had recessions before.
    - bamboozled 4y ago
      > Very much a fantasy. Why? Look at Japan, there is places where land is being given away, some of this land was absolutely prime real estate in the early 90's, you couldn't even buy it. Even in those places, if you buy something, you risk being asked to move due to now crumbling or unsustainable infrastructure. So explain why this doesn't happen in other countries who are facing population decline also ? > I have 40+ years of work ahead of me. We had recessions before. The point of the article is that young people don't feel like they want to work and save for forty years due to bleak outlook though? It's true what people say, we don't have an economic model for what the future looks like here. I'm not saying it's a catastrophe, I'm just saying that you might be expecting a return to normality which might be strange given the changes we're seeing in the climate, demographics etc. Likely I'll just "buy back in" because what else do you do? My strategy at the moment is not to worry too much about paying stupid money for land, and put my money into yes, bonds or other boring crap.
    - thenerdhead 4y ago
      > The idea is to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. I have 40+ years of work ahead of me. We had recessions before. You could simplify that idea to simply just "buy". Not enough people even contribute to their retirement accounts to begin with. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/010616/whats-average-401k-balance-age.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/01061... https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2022/demo/p70br-180.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...
    - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
      > The idea is to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. Everyone knows "buy low, sell high", but few people know how to actually do it. The one thing I've learned - Don't buy an asset because it's going up. That's FOMO. Don't sell an asset because it's going down. If you buy something going up and sell going down, that's the recipe for buying high and selling low. Also, in the long term, the market is always up. Just keep buying shares of index funds. If the market is in a dip, that's the time to double-down and buy extra, not sell.
PebblesHD 4y ago
While I appreciate your optimism, things in Sydney for example are so egregious that if you were to deposit say the $100 each week you had left after food and rent, over 20 years with an average 5% return, you’d not quite have a 20% deposit for a house in Sydney at the prices they were when you started. In that time, they’ll probably have doubled again… EDIT: I also wanted to add that in general the idea of compounding wealth is totally correct, but the biggest vehicle for this has been the family home for generations, and it seems that for all intents and purposes, my generation and most of the one before me have been locked out of this. Personally, I’m very regularly investing any spare money into a range of index and diversified funds to try and keep myself ahead but without the 10-1 leverage property here offers its not enough.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  Honestly, why do you think house prices in Sydney will double again? Not saying your wrong but where's the appeal / drive coming from? Australia has a pretty low birth rate, there is immigration, but not everyone moving to Australia is rich, it's limited. There is climate change which IMO makes Sydney less desirable (becoming crazy hot in summers). Why would it double again? Even if it did, why do you think it will stay at all time highs? The only way I can see the high prices being sustainable is if developing countries populations were growing, more people with money to come compete for properties. Ultimately, that's not what's happening, so won't there be more properties on offer in the future? I've spent time in Australia and in the area I lived in Sydney, many of my neighbors were 50+, this was some while ago but still...
  - PebblesHD 4y ago
    I suspect the current property owning class will keep buying it up as investments and land banking, and bidding up the price as they go. The only way they could be as high as they are is as ‘investments’ where the purchaser either had capital or is anticipating selling before their loan reverts from interest only.
    - bamboozled 4y ago

qsort 4y ago

It's the ultimate self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course the future is going to be bleak and uncertain if you talk yourself into this weird idea that you don't need savings. Start investing the day you get your first job and let the exponential function do what it does best.

bamboozled 4y ago
What would you suggest people invest in right now ? Property? Demographic collapses incoming in multiple developed countries, there will be a surplus of land in a decade or two? Climate change, where do you buy that's safe? Shares? Going backwards, lots of uncertainty, potential war /conflict about to break out in the pacific.High inflation, interest rates. I sold all my shares a few months back, not looking like the best of times to get back in, not the worst either. Gold?
- qsort 4y ago
  > What would you suggest people invest in right now ? A mix of high quality long term bonds and stocks, depending on the desired risk profile, the same boring answer you'll get from anybody else. > Demographic collapses incoming in multiple developed countries, there will be a surplus of land in a decade or two? Very much a fantasy. > Shares? Going backwards, lots of uncertainty, potential war /conflict about to break out in the pacific.High inflation, interest rates. The idea is to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. I have 40+ years of work ahead of me. We had recessions before.
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    > Very much a fantasy. Why? Look at Japan, there is places where land is being given away, some of this land was absolutely prime real estate in the early 90's, you couldn't even buy it. Even in those places, if you buy something, you risk being asked to move due to now crumbling or unsustainable infrastructure. So explain why this doesn't happen in other countries who are facing population decline also ? > I have 40+ years of work ahead of me. We had recessions before. The point of the article is that young people don't feel like they want to work and save for forty years due to bleak outlook though? It's true what people say, we don't have an economic model for what the future looks like here. I'm not saying it's a catastrophe, I'm just saying that you might be expecting a return to normality which might be strange given the changes we're seeing in the climate, demographics etc. Likely I'll just "buy back in" because what else do you do? My strategy at the moment is not to worry too much about paying stupid money for land, and put my money into yes, bonds or other boring crap.
  - thenerdhead 4y ago
    > The idea is to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. I have 40+ years of work ahead of me. We had recessions before. You could simplify that idea to simply just "buy". Not enough people even contribute to their retirement accounts to begin with. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/010616/whats-average-401k-balance-age.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/01061... https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2022/demo/p70br-180.pdf https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    > The idea is to buy low and sell high, not buy high and sell low. Everyone knows "buy low, sell high", but few people know how to actually do it. The one thing I've learned - Don't buy an asset because it's going up. That's FOMO. Don't sell an asset because it's going down. If you buy something going up and sell going down, that's the recipe for buying high and selling low. Also, in the long term, the market is always up. Just keep buying shares of index funds. If the market is in a dip, that's the time to double-down and buy extra, not sell.

PebblesHD 4y ago

While I appreciate your optimism, things in Sydney for example are so egregious that if you were to deposit say the $100 each week you had left after food and rent, over 20 years with an average 5% return, you’d not quite have a 20% deposit for a house in Sydney at the prices they were when you started. In that time, they’ll probably have doubled again… EDIT: I also wanted to add that in general the idea of compounding wealth is totally correct, but the biggest vehicle for this has been the family home for generations, and it seems that for all intents and purposes, my generation and most of the one before me have been locked out of this. Personally, I’m very regularly investing any spare money into a range of index and diversified funds to try and keep myself ahead but without the 10-1 leverage property here offers its not enough.

bamboozled 4y ago
Honestly, why do you think house prices in Sydney will double again? Not saying your wrong but where's the appeal / drive coming from? Australia has a pretty low birth rate, there is immigration, but not everyone moving to Australia is rich, it's limited. There is climate change which IMO makes Sydney less desirable (becoming crazy hot in summers). Why would it double again? Even if it did, why do you think it will stay at all time highs? The only way I can see the high prices being sustainable is if developing countries populations were growing, more people with money to come compete for properties. Ultimately, that's not what's happening, so won't there be more properties on offer in the future? I've spent time in Australia and in the area I lived in Sydney, many of my neighbors were 50+, this was some while ago but still...
- PebblesHD 4y ago
  I suspect the current property owning class will keep buying it up as investments and land banking, and bidding up the price as they go. The only way they could be as high as they are is as ‘investments’ where the purchaser either had capital or is anticipating selling before their loan reverts from interest only.
  - bamboozled 4y ago