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I can’t say for certain, but most likely you do personally feel that there should be some limitations on freedom of speech. You might think it should be unlawfu

I can’t say for certain, but most likely you do personally feel that there should be some limitations on freedom of speech. You might think it should be unlawful to incite violence against someone, or to shout racist slurs at your bus driver, or for your manager to book a daily meeting to talk about how the gays are going to hell. Whatever; it doesn’t matter. There are some likely some scenarios in which you’re going to think “hey, you shouldn’t be able to do that”, where that thing involves expressing some idea. It would obviously be silly to say this means you “don’t believe in [freedom of speech] at all”. That’s why this sort of “absolutism” argument is a bit weak. The most interesting questions are about balancing the rights of different people - how to we ensure people are free to speak their minds, while trying to protect the rights of others. Simplification to the point of parody doesn’t really help advance that. There is enough stupid stuff to pick apart in this stupid legislation already and we don’t need to muddy the waters further; it makes me a bit worried to see so many people get tied up the abstraction of freedom of speech while ignoring the practical challenges - like the increasing privatisation of the public sphere.

commandlinefan 4y ago
> unlawful to ... shout racist slurs Unlawful? As in, go to jail unlawful? No, I don't feel that way at all. I don't think very many people do.
- bergenty 4y ago
  A lot of people do. Yes, you start treating racial slurs as a mild form of sexual abuse.
  - causi 4y ago
    Yes, you start treating racial slurs as a mild form of sexual abuse ...what?
    - bergenty 4y ago
      In terms of consequence. It makes sense.
      - _-david-_ 4y ago
        No it doesn't. A physical assault is not at all close to saying derogatory things.
        bergenty 4y ago
        It’s worse in many cases actually. That’s not an opinion, it’s based on studies with sizable ns.
        _-david-_ 4y ago
        Maybe you should provide some semblance of proof since that goes against ALL reason.
        bergenty 4y ago
        https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicolefisher/2020/02/14/emotional--physical-pain-are-almost-the-sameto-your-brain/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicolefisher/2020/02/14/emotion... That’s literally the first result on Google. There is a lot of study backing this up, I thought this was common knowledge.
        _-david-_ 4y ago
        Unfortunately your article is not proof that "it’s worse in many cases". First, the article is talking about rejections (primarily in relationships) not racial slurs. Second, I read the article fast so maybe I missed something, but I didn't see anything saying the emotional is worse than physical other than this sentence "Third, it is important to remember that we recall emotional rejection more strongly than physical pain, and it can therefore cause longer-term sensitivity". The article didn't provide any proof of this, they just made the claim. Also, recalling past pain may or may not happen frequently. How many people recall something mean a random person said on the internet? Third, the average person likely won't feel strong feelings of emotional rejection if some random person on the internet says something mean to them. The article is clearly talking about rejection from family, friends, spouse, etc. Based on your argument it seems like we should ban breakups since it can be worse than sexual assault. Would you be fine with that? If not then why are racial slurs different?
- anon84873628 4y ago
  The rest of the quote is "at your bus driver". Most people would agree that the bus driver has a right to do their job without being the victim of verbal abuse, even if they are a public employee. In this case the crime is "verbally abusing the bus driver", and if the contents of that speech include racial slurs then there could be an add-on offense for hate speech. If you are just yelling obscenities at your friend in the driveway then it is a different situation.

commandlinefan 4y ago

> unlawful to ... shout racist slurs Unlawful? As in, go to jail unlawful? No, I don't feel that way at all. I don't think very many people do.

bergenty 4y ago
A lot of people do. Yes, you start treating racial slurs as a mild form of sexual abuse.
- causi 4y ago
  Yes, you start treating racial slurs as a mild form of sexual abuse ...what?
  - bergenty 4y ago
    In terms of consequence. It makes sense.
    - _-david-_ 4y ago
      No it doesn't. A physical assault is not at all close to saying derogatory things.
      - bergenty 4y ago
        It’s worse in many cases actually. That’s not an opinion, it’s based on studies with sizable ns.
        _-david-_ 4y ago
        Maybe you should provide some semblance of proof since that goes against ALL reason.
        bergenty 4y ago
        https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicolefisher/2020/02/14/emotional--physical-pain-are-almost-the-sameto-your-brain/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicolefisher/2020/02/14/emotion... That’s literally the first result on Google. There is a lot of study backing this up, I thought this was common knowledge.
        _-david-_ 4y ago
        Unfortunately your article is not proof that "it’s worse in many cases". First, the article is talking about rejections (primarily in relationships) not racial slurs. Second, I read the article fast so maybe I missed something, but I didn't see anything saying the emotional is worse than physical other than this sentence "Third, it is important to remember that we recall emotional rejection more strongly than physical pain, and it can therefore cause longer-term sensitivity". The article didn't provide any proof of this, they just made the claim. Also, recalling past pain may or may not happen frequently. How many people recall something mean a random person said on the internet? Third, the average person likely won't feel strong feelings of emotional rejection if some random person on the internet says something mean to them. The article is clearly talking about rejection from family, friends, spouse, etc. Based on your argument it seems like we should ban breakups since it can be worse than sexual assault. Would you be fine with that? If not then why are racial slurs different?
anon84873628 4y ago
The rest of the quote is "at your bus driver". Most people would agree that the bus driver has a right to do their job without being the victim of verbal abuse, even if they are a public employee. In this case the crime is "verbally abusing the bus driver", and if the contents of that speech include racial slurs then there could be an add-on offense for hate speech. If you are just yelling obscenities at your friend in the driveway then it is a different situation.