8 ms·

Not sure if it’s what the person in question did, but there’s a whole guide that pops up on here occasionally regarding building a wireless ISP. https://starty

Not sure if it’s what the person in question did, but there’s a whole guide that pops up on here occasionally regarding building a wireless ISP. https://startyourownisp.com/ https://startyourownisp.com/

dataflow 4y ago
I can't find any section of that guide that talks about peering or whatever ISPs are supposed to do to connect to the broader internet. Do you see any step that explains this?
- haunter 4y ago
  It's the 2nd step https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ If you just Google then it's usually called leased or dedicated internet Just some (US) examples https://www.business.att.com/products/att-dedicated-internet.html https://www.business.att.com/products/att-dedicated-internet... https://business.comcast.com/learn/internet/dedicated-internet https://business.comcast.com/learn/internet/dedicated-intern... https://www.verizon.com/business/products/internet/internet-dedicated/ https://www.verizon.com/business/products/internet/internet-...
  - dataflow 4y ago
    So they're leasing ("buying"?) fiber from the same ISPs they're trying to displace and relying on that payment to provide them with continued internet access? This doesn't sound like a real first-class ISP, but something akin to an MVNO where they're at the mercy of the same companies they're competing with. I get the initial sale might seem fine, and the established ISPs might be fine with this as long as the company is small, but why wouldn't these companies shut them off (or raise the prices, etc.) when they grow too big to become dangerous?
    - wins32767 4y ago
      He's not trying to displace the majors. In rural areas, owning and maintaining a bunch of fiber to service less than a thousand customers isn't a business Comcast really wants to be in unless they get paid a ton for it.
    - q3k 4y ago
      You can lease fibre/lambda/L2 transport to an IXP (and there peer with other local ISPs and get global transit from Tier 1 providers) from many companies that don't even have any residential offering. Or if (technically/financially/legally) possible, even run your own fibre to a PoP housing an IXP on your own. Once you're in multiple PoPs and on multiple IXPs and with multiple upstreams/peers you're pretty much independent from the whims of a single ISP.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Because it's all business to them, and if they did it overtly they could get sued. But also because once you're in a single location, you can pretty easily get multiple providers to that location for a Price, so there's really no point. Even small rural towns usually have multiple internet connections from different companies, and if they don't you can pay to run fiber if you really wanted to. People find it hard to believe, but Comcast et al are actually businesses, not Satan's marketing department; and they happily take money even from "competitors".
      - themoonisachees 4y ago
        To expand on that: Comcast would much rather sell a dedicated fiber to a business with capital and guarantees. Selling to the individual consumer doesn't make a lot of sense business-wise, because of the deployment costs and continued support costs. Comcast is also abusing their status as oligopoly to gouge costumers financially and qos-wise, but if they're selling to a business that buys large quantities and has staff who's job it is to handle network problems, they actually like that (right up until that business threatens to compete with them in areas where said oligopoly is in place, of course)
    - haunter 4y ago
- bombcar 4y ago
  As a small ISP you don't peer - you just buy transit from a bigger ISP. So the basic steps are: 1. Buy a 1G/1G or 10G/10G whatever link to a building you own. 2. Resell that link in parts to customers. Or you can get yourself into a POP (point of presence) somewhere that multiple providers are also in, and get transit that way. Depends on where you are and what you can get access to.
  - nixgeek 4y ago
    As a small ISP you definitely can peer and many do, you just aren’t going to get settlement-free peering with any of the big eyeball networks like Comcast. Something like Seattle IX is a good example of where lots of peering sessions could be established (although I haven’t looked at Jared’s ASN in any detail to see where it’s present). https://www.seattleix.net/home https://www.seattleix.net/home Any traffic you’re able to offload via peering you wouldn’t be paying an IP transit to haul, so it’s worth seeing if networks like Netflix are on the Route Servers (https://www.ams-ix.net/ams/documentation/ams-ix-route-servers https://www.ams-ix.net/ams/documentation/ams-ix-route-server...) at any IX nearby your network, seeing if you can negotiate a session over the IX even if they don’t participate in the RS, or seeing if you can do PNI (sling a cable between your networks in a facility you’re both located in). Edit: Jared’s on Detroit IX. https://www.peeringdb.com/net/20268 https://www.peeringdb.com/net/20268
    - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
      Wait. The poster above said in point 1 to buy a line,1G, 10g depending on your upstream seller. Why do you need peering then? If I have 1Gbps line for example and 10 users each are using equal amount 100% of time, it shouldn't matter they send the data to Alaska or Russia or Australia ? Or does it? Do you buy the pipe and the data itself also?
      - icedchai 4y ago
        You don't "need" peering but it offloads your upstream (transit) links, which are generally much more expensive. In the old days, I worked for couple ISPs and we typically had 3 or 4 upstreams (generally UUNet, Sprint, MCI...) This was back when a T1 was still considered fast.
- mananaysiempre 4y ago
  If you want to try your hand in a playground for the software (routing) parts, DN42[1] is essentially one. [1] https://dn42.us/ https://dn42.us/, https://dn42.eu/ https://dn42.eu/, https://dn42.dev/ https://dn42.dev/
kevmo314 4y ago
From https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/, doesn't this site basically say connect to another ISP?
- moffkalast 4y ago
  Well there three tiers of ISPs, each one buying service from the one above them. It's ISPs all the way down, and the higher up you go the more expensive the hardware to run it gets.
  - Macha 4y ago
    At the T1 level it's more completely a mesh type setup, but even lower tier ISPs might set up peering agreements to bypass their main higher tier ISP where it makes sense for cost or service quality reasons. Or refuse to to extract more money as in the comcast vs level1 disputes over netflix traffic a while back
    - lillecarl 4y ago
      Who is T1, T2 and T3? I really don't see it. Seems like that tiering has aged about as well as the OSI model.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - MerelyMortal 4y ago
    I feel like this could be made into an ISP Tycoon game.
    - haunter 4y ago
      It actually does exist lol! Made by Cisco as an e-learning tool Gameplay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foa34qoRzjs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foa34qoRzjs https://web.archive.org/web/20150317144142/https://cisco.edu.mn/Download/AspireNetworkingAcademyEdition.exe https://web.archive.org/web/20150317144142/https://cisco.edu...

dataflow 4y ago

I can't find any section of that guide that talks about peering or whatever ISPs are supposed to do to connect to the broader internet. Do you see any step that explains this?

haunter 4y ago
It's the 2nd step https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ If you just Google then it's usually called leased or dedicated internet Just some (US) examples https://www.business.att.com/products/att-dedicated-internet.html https://www.business.att.com/products/att-dedicated-internet... https://business.comcast.com/learn/internet/dedicated-internet https://business.comcast.com/learn/internet/dedicated-intern... https://www.verizon.com/business/products/internet/internet-dedicated/ https://www.verizon.com/business/products/internet/internet-...
- dataflow 4y ago
  So they're leasing ("buying"?) fiber from the same ISPs they're trying to displace and relying on that payment to provide them with continued internet access? This doesn't sound like a real first-class ISP, but something akin to an MVNO where they're at the mercy of the same companies they're competing with. I get the initial sale might seem fine, and the established ISPs might be fine with this as long as the company is small, but why wouldn't these companies shut them off (or raise the prices, etc.) when they grow too big to become dangerous?
  - wins32767 4y ago
    He's not trying to displace the majors. In rural areas, owning and maintaining a bunch of fiber to service less than a thousand customers isn't a business Comcast really wants to be in unless they get paid a ton for it.
  - q3k 4y ago
    You can lease fibre/lambda/L2 transport to an IXP (and there peer with other local ISPs and get global transit from Tier 1 providers) from many companies that don't even have any residential offering. Or if (technically/financially/legally) possible, even run your own fibre to a PoP housing an IXP on your own. Once you're in multiple PoPs and on multiple IXPs and with multiple upstreams/peers you're pretty much independent from the whims of a single ISP.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Because it's all business to them, and if they did it overtly they could get sued. But also because once you're in a single location, you can pretty easily get multiple providers to that location for a Price, so there's really no point. Even small rural towns usually have multiple internet connections from different companies, and if they don't you can pay to run fiber if you really wanted to. People find it hard to believe, but Comcast et al are actually businesses, not Satan's marketing department; and they happily take money even from "competitors".
    - themoonisachees 4y ago
      To expand on that: Comcast would much rather sell a dedicated fiber to a business with capital and guarantees. Selling to the individual consumer doesn't make a lot of sense business-wise, because of the deployment costs and continued support costs. Comcast is also abusing their status as oligopoly to gouge costumers financially and qos-wise, but if they're selling to a business that buys large quantities and has staff who's job it is to handle network problems, they actually like that (right up until that business threatens to compete with them in areas where said oligopoly is in place, of course)
  - haunter 4y ago
bombcar 4y ago
As a small ISP you don't peer - you just buy transit from a bigger ISP. So the basic steps are: 1. Buy a 1G/1G or 10G/10G whatever link to a building you own. 2. Resell that link in parts to customers. Or you can get yourself into a POP (point of presence) somewhere that multiple providers are also in, and get transit that way. Depends on where you are and what you can get access to.
- nixgeek 4y ago
  As a small ISP you definitely can peer and many do, you just aren’t going to get settlement-free peering with any of the big eyeball networks like Comcast. Something like Seattle IX is a good example of where lots of peering sessions could be established (although I haven’t looked at Jared’s ASN in any detail to see where it’s present). https://www.seattleix.net/home https://www.seattleix.net/home Any traffic you’re able to offload via peering you wouldn’t be paying an IP transit to haul, so it’s worth seeing if networks like Netflix are on the Route Servers (https://www.ams-ix.net/ams/documentation/ams-ix-route-servers https://www.ams-ix.net/ams/documentation/ams-ix-route-server...) at any IX nearby your network, seeing if you can negotiate a session over the IX even if they don’t participate in the RS, or seeing if you can do PNI (sling a cable between your networks in a facility you’re both located in). Edit: Jared’s on Detroit IX. https://www.peeringdb.com/net/20268 https://www.peeringdb.com/net/20268
  - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
    Wait. The poster above said in point 1 to buy a line,1G, 10g depending on your upstream seller. Why do you need peering then? If I have 1Gbps line for example and 10 users each are using equal amount 100% of time, it shouldn't matter they send the data to Alaska or Russia or Australia ? Or does it? Do you buy the pipe and the data itself also?
    - icedchai 4y ago
      You don't "need" peering but it offloads your upstream (transit) links, which are generally much more expensive. In the old days, I worked for couple ISPs and we typically had 3 or 4 upstreams (generally UUNet, Sprint, MCI...) This was back when a T1 was still considered fast.
mananaysiempre 4y ago
If you want to try your hand in a playground for the software (routing) parts, DN42[1] is essentially one. [1] https://dn42.us/ https://dn42.us/, https://dn42.eu/ https://dn42.eu/, https://dn42.dev/ https://dn42.dev/

kevmo314 4y ago

From https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/ https://startyourownisp.com/posts/fiber-provider/, doesn't this site basically say connect to another ISP?

moffkalast 4y ago
Well there three tiers of ISPs, each one buying service from the one above them. It's ISPs all the way down, and the higher up you go the more expensive the hardware to run it gets.
- Macha 4y ago
  At the T1 level it's more completely a mesh type setup, but even lower tier ISPs might set up peering agreements to bypass their main higher tier ISP where it makes sense for cost or service quality reasons. Or refuse to to extract more money as in the comcast vs level1 disputes over netflix traffic a while back
  - lillecarl 4y ago
    Who is T1, T2 and T3? I really don't see it. Seems like that tiering has aged about as well as the OSI model.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- MerelyMortal 4y ago
  I feel like this could be made into an ISP Tycoon game.
  - haunter 4y ago
    It actually does exist lol! Made by Cisco as an e-learning tool Gameplay https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foa34qoRzjs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Foa34qoRzjs https://web.archive.org/web/20150317144142/https://cisco.edu.mn/Download/AspireNetworkingAcademyEdition.exe https://web.archive.org/web/20150317144142/https://cisco.edu...