5 ms·

No sh*t... UK, Canada & Australia really disappoint when it comes to civil liberties, rights & online privacy. Especially since the start of Covid(not to say th

by sebow 4y ago

No sh*t... UK, Canada & Australia really disappoint when it comes to civil liberties, rights & online privacy. Especially since the start of Covid(not to say the unlawful imprisonment of Assange or even sooner). But then again, it's the place that solves everything with "banning"(see knives).

AlanYx 4y ago
It was Germany that really got the ball rolling on this, with its Network Enforcement Act (commonly called "NetzDG"). NetzDG is being used as a model for policymakers in the UK, Canada and Australia. This is pretty astonishing to me, given that there are serious, systemic problems with how NetzDG operates, some which are clearly evident from its mandatory annual reporting.
- sebow 4y ago
  Of course, also Germany. I was gonna ask if NetzDG was the means through which you could have been arrested for speech(i.e opinions for example, not "spreading fake news") on social media. After a quick search I've seen that it passed after 2017, which is chronologically after the cases I remember that happened in UK&DE. In any case, not exactly an ideal law for western values.
  - 62951413 4y ago
    They are slowly catching up with Putin's Russia. He started jailing dissidents years ago on this exact pretext. His government pioneered the corresponding legalese (known as rule 282) as early as 2002. And of course initially it was applied to literal Nazis only. It boggle my mind to think that former democracies so want to become second-rate authoritarian regimes. The country that started it all with Magna Carta 800 years ago just abandons hard-won freedoms without a major war or famine powerful enough to distract the populace.
    - AlanYx 4y ago
      I strongly agree. It's also worth mentioning that rule 282 is only a small part of the Russian media control regime at this point; it's expanded dramatically in recent years, particularly post-2017. One could write a whole book about the current constellation of Russian media control legislation.
andyjohnson0 4y ago
Here in the UK the problem is substantially a structural one. First-past-the-post elections and the lack of a legislative revising chamber with a democratic mandate result in governments having very little restraint on their powers. This tends to result in bad laws, which often pander to the worst instincts of the governing party's membership (see: "something must be done"). Because we have no written constitution, and because it has recently become apparent that the precedent-based system that we have instead is much more bendable than was previously thought (see: brexit), governments can pretty much do what they want. And they do. And this kind of "strong government" is actually quite popular with some people, particularly on the right at present. I don't know about Canada or Australia, but at the national level I believe their systems are at least partly patterned on the one they inherited from the UK.
- JacobThreeThree 4y ago
  >I don't know about Canada or Australia, but at the national level I believe their systems are at least partly patterned on the one they inherited from the UK. According to Twitter, the proposed Canadian bill is... >comparable to drastic actions used in authoritarian countries like China, North Korea and Iran. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-twitter-compared-liberal-governments-online-harms-plan-to-china-north/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-twitter-com...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- cataphract 4y ago
  "Recently become apparent"? Tony Blair won 43% of the popular vote and made major constitutional reforms like the Lords reform of 1999. It's crazy to have such a low bar for reforming the political system.
bluescrn 4y ago
> But then again, it's the place that solves everything with "banning"(see knives). The approach has it's pros and cons. Knife restrictions may have gone too far, but nobody in the UK worries about gun crime, interactions with the police are much less scary, and it's very rare that anybody is killed by the police. Yes, the most serious criminals can still get hold of guns, but not the low-level thieves, drug dealers, or angry homicidal school kids.
- benj111 4y ago
  Except knives aren't banned. It's just if you're stopped and have one with a blade over a certain length (an inch?) You can be required to give a reason why you're carrying it. I don't doubt there's instances of this being abused, but it does seem useful to be able to do something if someone's carrying a knife and you have a reasonable suspicion.
  - denton-scratch 4y ago
    Folding knives that lock are also banned; I don't know why. I own a Buck Hunter knife, and I'm not allowed to step out of my home with that thing in my pocket. It would be really awkward to pull that thing out and extend the blade in the middle of an altercation. Perhaps the ban on lock-knives is that it's easier to stab someone with a lock-knife without cutting off your own fingers? As far as I'm aware, it's legal in the UK to carry a folding knife with a blade shorter than 3", as long as it doesn't lock. Fixed blades (e.g. a chef's knife) are prohibited for carry, unless you have a reason for carrying it (e.g. you just bought it).
  - bluescrn 4y ago
    AFAIK, Having a knife in your car, even in the boot, counts as 'carrying it'. So you can potentially be done for having a Leatherman multi-tool (with locking blade) in your car. The question is what would count as a valid reason for 'carrying' it. Is simply 'keeping a few tools around in case of emergency' enough if you encounter a cop who's having a bad day?
    - 4y ago

by sebow 4y ago

AlanYx 4y ago

It was Germany that really got the ball rolling on this, with its Network Enforcement Act (commonly called "NetzDG"). NetzDG is being used as a model for policymakers in the UK, Canada and Australia. This is pretty astonishing to me, given that there are serious, systemic problems with how NetzDG operates, some which are clearly evident from its mandatory annual reporting.

sebow 4y ago
Of course, also Germany. I was gonna ask if NetzDG was the means through which you could have been arrested for speech(i.e opinions for example, not "spreading fake news") on social media. After a quick search I've seen that it passed after 2017, which is chronologically after the cases I remember that happened in UK&DE. In any case, not exactly an ideal law for western values.
- 62951413 4y ago
  They are slowly catching up with Putin's Russia. He started jailing dissidents years ago on this exact pretext. His government pioneered the corresponding legalese (known as rule 282) as early as 2002. And of course initially it was applied to literal Nazis only. It boggle my mind to think that former democracies so want to become second-rate authoritarian regimes. The country that started it all with Magna Carta 800 years ago just abandons hard-won freedoms without a major war or famine powerful enough to distract the populace.
  - AlanYx 4y ago
    I strongly agree. It's also worth mentioning that rule 282 is only a small part of the Russian media control regime at this point; it's expanded dramatically in recent years, particularly post-2017. One could write a whole book about the current constellation of Russian media control legislation.

andyjohnson0 4y ago

Here in the UK the problem is substantially a structural one. First-past-the-post elections and the lack of a legislative revising chamber with a democratic mandate result in governments having very little restraint on their powers. This tends to result in bad laws, which often pander to the worst instincts of the governing party's membership (see: "something must be done"). Because we have no written constitution, and because it has recently become apparent that the precedent-based system that we have instead is much more bendable than was previously thought (see: brexit), governments can pretty much do what they want. And they do. And this kind of "strong government" is actually quite popular with some people, particularly on the right at present. I don't know about Canada or Australia, but at the national level I believe their systems are at least partly patterned on the one they inherited from the UK.

JacobThreeThree 4y ago
>I don't know about Canada or Australia, but at the national level I believe their systems are at least partly patterned on the one they inherited from the UK. According to Twitter, the proposed Canadian bill is... >comparable to drastic actions used in authoritarian countries like China, North Korea and Iran. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-twitter-compared-liberal-governments-online-harms-plan-to-china-north/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-twitter-com...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cataphract 4y ago
"Recently become apparent"? Tony Blair won 43% of the popular vote and made major constitutional reforms like the Lords reform of 1999. It's crazy to have such a low bar for reforming the political system.

bluescrn 4y ago

> But then again, it's the place that solves everything with "banning"(see knives). The approach has it's pros and cons. Knife restrictions may have gone too far, but nobody in the UK worries about gun crime, interactions with the police are much less scary, and it's very rare that anybody is killed by the police. Yes, the most serious criminals can still get hold of guns, but not the low-level thieves, drug dealers, or angry homicidal school kids.

benj111 4y ago
Except knives aren't banned. It's just if you're stopped and have one with a blade over a certain length (an inch?) You can be required to give a reason why you're carrying it. I don't doubt there's instances of this being abused, but it does seem useful to be able to do something if someone's carrying a knife and you have a reasonable suspicion.
- denton-scratch 4y ago
  Folding knives that lock are also banned; I don't know why. I own a Buck Hunter knife, and I'm not allowed to step out of my home with that thing in my pocket. It would be really awkward to pull that thing out and extend the blade in the middle of an altercation. Perhaps the ban on lock-knives is that it's easier to stab someone with a lock-knife without cutting off your own fingers? As far as I'm aware, it's legal in the UK to carry a folding knife with a blade shorter than 3", as long as it doesn't lock. Fixed blades (e.g. a chef's knife) are prohibited for carry, unless you have a reason for carrying it (e.g. you just bought it).
- bluescrn 4y ago
  AFAIK, Having a knife in your car, even in the boot, counts as 'carrying it'. So you can potentially be done for having a Leatherman multi-tool (with locking blade) in your car. The question is what would count as a valid reason for 'carrying' it. Is simply 'keeping a few tools around in case of emergency' enough if you encounter a cop who's having a bad day?
  - 4y ago