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I actually would not expect smart people to be happier. In fact, I wouldn't expect any group of people to be particularly happier than anyone else. Happiness a

I actually would not expect smart people to be happier. In fact, I wouldn't expect any group of people to be particularly happier than anyone else. Happiness and suffering are two sides of the same coin and we evolved these feelings (or they were bestowed upon us by God, either way) in order to guide us. We do more of what feels good, less of what feels bad. If we're happy all the time, happiness loses its intended purpose. Same for suffering. That's why, no matter what financial windfall you may experience, give it 6 months and you'll be just as miserable (or worse) as you were before. But because you got a high off of it initially, you keep pursuing more and more, always convinced the next upgrade in your life is what will do the trick. But it doesn't. All you're doing is raising the bar for what it takes to make you momentarily happy. It's the "poverty of affluence", as described by Paul Wachtel in his book by the same name. So our minds are constantly adapting to our circumstances and rebalancing things so that we come back to the center. Chasing happiness, much like running away from suffering, is a fool's game. We are hard wired to feel both in roughly equal measure, regardless of our circumstances, over the long haul. For this reason, I think the buddhists and stoics have it right. The best thing we can do is nothing. Sit down and shut up. Get off the wheel of suffering, observe the world as dispassionately as possible, and accept both joy and suffering as inconsequential inputs meant to guide us. It's the closest any human will ever be allowed to experience peace in their mortal life. If you chase the highs of life, expect massive lows, as well. Accept life on life's terms. Stop chasing things and you may not be happier, but you'll probably be less miserable and experience fewer bouts of crippling depression and anxiety. Or as Charles Bukowski's epitaph famously reads: Don't try.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
> That's why, no matter what financial windfall you may experience, give it 6 months and you'll be just as miserable (or worse) as you were before. But because you got a high off of it initially, you keep pursuing more and more, always convinced the next upgrade in your life is what will do the trick. But it doesn't. All you're doing is raising the bar for what it takes to make you momentarily happy. I am pretty sure someone who has no security of shelter/food/water/healthcare/education/legal who gains those securities is happier than before they had those securities. At least I am. It is nice being able to sleep knowing I don not have to worry about my basic needs, and being able to walk away from tasks I do not want to do.
- creakingstairs 4y ago
  I agree. When I was counting every dollar to survive, I was a nervous wreck. I had no capacity to be happy. Now I can buy whatever I want during grocery without caring. I’m not necessarily happier, but I have the capacity to be happy. But I’m guessing what the OP meant was after basic affluence is met(which probably varies wildly by person), then more money does not correlate with happiness. Which I would also agree with.
- synu 4y ago
  Very much the same here. I grew up without security of those things either, and never quite managed to lose the appreciation or happiness in finding a career in tech that pulled me out of that. Buddha-like dispassionate observation of my situation wasn't really an option, or at least I wasn't capable of it. Something else that helped, I think, is that when I did have a life-changing windfall (a company stock actually paid out) I didn't change anything in my life. I just use it to do relatively humble but satisfying things, like family vacations that I wouldn't have had access to before. I imagine if I had blown it all on parties or something I'd have had major ups and downs, but having it be a source of stability and little happiness bubbles released over a long period of time has been really positive.
- pid-1 4y ago
  I often think about the law of diminishing returns. My finances had a few inflection points that improved my life tremendously: - Left the violent neighborhood I grew up at - Was able to eat real food every day - Started being able to save money - Stopped using public transport - Got a place for myself - Got a job with great work life balance Now, every extra cash I make improves my peace of mind, as my biggest fear is being poor again. I don't think any extra luxury will ever make me happier than the points I outlined above did.
- fendy3002 4y ago
  And after I've learned about four noble truths in Buddhism, I began to appreciate my situation and become averagely happier than before.
- nottorp 4y ago
rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago
Stoicism and buddhism never worked for me—observing the world as dispassionately as possible is the most dead I’ve ever felt inside. Pouring myself out as passionately as possible to what I consider my life’s work is the happiest, most satisfying feeling in the world, and that’s despite the setbacks. I still come across as stoic to some people, though, just because it takes a lot (if at all) to upset me, but my calmness is not borne out of dispassion—I really just know now which arguments or fights are worth having and with whom, and the vast majority of those arguments and people are simply inconsequential.
- slothtrop 4y ago
  Ditto. My view of this disparity in outlooks now is that the important thing is to be honest with yourself about your nature, i.e. figure out if you're a slacker or a go-getter. Some people take comfort in coasting and consuming, they likely never needed a buddhist parable to figure that out. I could attempt to give myself "permission" to do nothing using an -ism but I can't believe it, and I don't find it satisfying. Striving affords a higher-order level of living. I certainly had to "try" to resolve issues like insomnia, and had to "try" to create new habits, "try" to reach a state of flow at work, "try" to strive towards mastery in an art. I'm actually more perplexed by creatives who would suggest they don't actually try, but I imagine this is only because they've created habits long ago, sparked by a mere interest, to the extent that biasing towards action (pursuing those habits) requires no effort. I found myself having to create new habits because I was in a state of complete disarray, purely trying to avoid pain. As for Bukowski, he was an alcoholic and seemingly a miserable misanthrope. Seems like "don't try" was of little comfort.
  - nickelcitymario 4y ago
    "Don't try" was his take on a lifetime of trying. He failed in all areas of his life until he hit it off as a writer in his 60s (after decades of rejection). In other words, his biggest regret was all that effort he made. All it did was make him a miserable misanthrope. It was only when he let go of his expectations and stopped trying so hard that he started finding success.
elmer007 4y ago
> I wouldn't expect any group of people to be particularly happier than anyone else Interestingly, there is at least 1 group (to my knowledge) that is particularly happier than most everyone else. When surveyed, nearly 99% indicate that they are happy with their lives. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740159/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740159/
- nickelcitymario 4y ago
  That is indeed fascinating. Not sure what to take from that at the moment, but it does seem like a finding with potentially big implications.
  - elmer007 4y ago
    I agree, and am currently looking for additional studies about this group. I have found one that was conducted in Japan [1]. I would be very interested to see how reproducible the results are, especially across a variety of demographics. [1] https://europepmc.org/article/med/29449634 https://europepmc.org/article/med/29449634
dist1ll 4y ago
This entire comment is full of mistakes and logical errors. > We are hard wired to feel both in roughly equal measure, regardless of our circumstances [...] So our minds are constantly adapting to our circumstances and rebalancing things so that we come back to the center. Citation desperately needed. This sounds like pure pseudo-science. There definitely exists a bio-chemical mechanism that attempts to normalize the numbers of hormone receptors w.r.t. the level of released endorphins, but it's in no way a simple zero-sum mechanism like you're describing. > Stop chasing things and you may not be happier, but you'll probably be less miserable and experience fewer bouts of crippling depression and anxiety. Your conclusion isn't consistent with your premise. Didn't you just claim that "our minds are constantly adapting to our circumstances and rebalancing things so that we come back to the center". By your logic, everything we do is futile, and nothing will change the feeling of anxiety and depression.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

> That's why, no matter what financial windfall you may experience, give it 6 months and you'll be just as miserable (or worse) as you were before. But because you got a high off of it initially, you keep pursuing more and more, always convinced the next upgrade in your life is what will do the trick. But it doesn't. All you're doing is raising the bar for what it takes to make you momentarily happy. I am pretty sure someone who has no security of shelter/food/water/healthcare/education/legal who gains those securities is happier than before they had those securities. At least I am. It is nice being able to sleep knowing I don not have to worry about my basic needs, and being able to walk away from tasks I do not want to do.

creakingstairs 4y ago
I agree. When I was counting every dollar to survive, I was a nervous wreck. I had no capacity to be happy. Now I can buy whatever I want during grocery without caring. I’m not necessarily happier, but I have the capacity to be happy. But I’m guessing what the OP meant was after basic affluence is met(which probably varies wildly by person), then more money does not correlate with happiness. Which I would also agree with.
synu 4y ago
Very much the same here. I grew up without security of those things either, and never quite managed to lose the appreciation or happiness in finding a career in tech that pulled me out of that. Buddha-like dispassionate observation of my situation wasn't really an option, or at least I wasn't capable of it. Something else that helped, I think, is that when I did have a life-changing windfall (a company stock actually paid out) I didn't change anything in my life. I just use it to do relatively humble but satisfying things, like family vacations that I wouldn't have had access to before. I imagine if I had blown it all on parties or something I'd have had major ups and downs, but having it be a source of stability and little happiness bubbles released over a long period of time has been really positive.
pid-1 4y ago
I often think about the law of diminishing returns. My finances had a few inflection points that improved my life tremendously: - Left the violent neighborhood I grew up at - Was able to eat real food every day - Started being able to save money - Stopped using public transport - Got a place for myself - Got a job with great work life balance Now, every extra cash I make improves my peace of mind, as my biggest fear is being poor again. I don't think any extra luxury will ever make me happier than the points I outlined above did.
fendy3002 4y ago
And after I've learned about four noble truths in Buddhism, I began to appreciate my situation and become averagely happier than before.
nottorp 4y ago

rTX5CMRXIfFG 4y ago

Stoicism and buddhism never worked for me—observing the world as dispassionately as possible is the most dead I’ve ever felt inside. Pouring myself out as passionately as possible to what I consider my life’s work is the happiest, most satisfying feeling in the world, and that’s despite the setbacks. I still come across as stoic to some people, though, just because it takes a lot (if at all) to upset me, but my calmness is not borne out of dispassion—I really just know now which arguments or fights are worth having and with whom, and the vast majority of those arguments and people are simply inconsequential.

slothtrop 4y ago
Ditto. My view of this disparity in outlooks now is that the important thing is to be honest with yourself about your nature, i.e. figure out if you're a slacker or a go-getter. Some people take comfort in coasting and consuming, they likely never needed a buddhist parable to figure that out. I could attempt to give myself "permission" to do nothing using an -ism but I can't believe it, and I don't find it satisfying. Striving affords a higher-order level of living. I certainly had to "try" to resolve issues like insomnia, and had to "try" to create new habits, "try" to reach a state of flow at work, "try" to strive towards mastery in an art. I'm actually more perplexed by creatives who would suggest they don't actually try, but I imagine this is only because they've created habits long ago, sparked by a mere interest, to the extent that biasing towards action (pursuing those habits) requires no effort. I found myself having to create new habits because I was in a state of complete disarray, purely trying to avoid pain. As for Bukowski, he was an alcoholic and seemingly a miserable misanthrope. Seems like "don't try" was of little comfort.
- nickelcitymario 4y ago
  "Don't try" was his take on a lifetime of trying. He failed in all areas of his life until he hit it off as a writer in his 60s (after decades of rejection). In other words, his biggest regret was all that effort he made. All it did was make him a miserable misanthrope. It was only when he let go of his expectations and stopped trying so hard that he started finding success.

elmer007 4y ago

> I wouldn't expect any group of people to be particularly happier than anyone else Interestingly, there is at least 1 group (to my knowledge) that is particularly happier than most everyone else. When surveyed, nearly 99% indicate that they are happy with their lives. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740159/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3740159/

nickelcitymario 4y ago
That is indeed fascinating. Not sure what to take from that at the moment, but it does seem like a finding with potentially big implications.
- elmer007 4y ago
  I agree, and am currently looking for additional studies about this group. I have found one that was conducted in Japan [1]. I would be very interested to see how reproducible the results are, especially across a variety of demographics. [1] https://europepmc.org/article/med/29449634 https://europepmc.org/article/med/29449634

dist1ll 4y ago

This entire comment is full of mistakes and logical errors. > We are hard wired to feel both in roughly equal measure, regardless of our circumstances [...] So our minds are constantly adapting to our circumstances and rebalancing things so that we come back to the center. Citation desperately needed. This sounds like pure pseudo-science. There definitely exists a bio-chemical mechanism that attempts to normalize the numbers of hormone receptors w.r.t. the level of released endorphins, but it's in no way a simple zero-sum mechanism like you're describing. > Stop chasing things and you may not be happier, but you'll probably be less miserable and experience fewer bouts of crippling depression and anxiety. Your conclusion isn't consistent with your premise. Didn't you just claim that "our minds are constantly adapting to our circumstances and rebalancing things so that we come back to the center". By your logic, everything we do is futile, and nothing will change the feeling of anxiety and depression.