3 ms·

Japanese Dakuten, Handakuten and Contracted Sounds

7 points by lassmaglio 4y ago

Cyberdog 4y ago
なぜかにそのような記事はHNのフロントページにあるの。
- temp 4y ago
  If it has any mention of Japan or Germany in the title, it's bound to end up on the frontpage.
  - asciiresort 4y ago
    It’s especially ironic when Japan is the embodiment of what the average tech person in the West purports to be ideologically offended by: nationalism ( celebration of war criminals, denialism of crimes in Pacific Theater as a hoax ) , racism ( and a racial superiority complex ), sexism ( top medical school recently found to set lower bar for male candidates ), sexual assault not being pursued by criminal justice system , animal rights, pollution ( Japan is one of the top recyclers, but everything is individually wrapped and wasteful ), cultural appropriation, classicism with remnants of feudalism, worshipping and upholding white male privilege, xenophobia ( Japan’s borders was once closed for hundreds of years. The border being restricted over the past 2 years is not surprising ), stubbornness to adapt to new technology, mega corporations controlling the narrative on “factory towns” ( visit Nagasaki and you will see the mainstream museums praise Mitsubishi Heavy Industries for its part in the industrialization of Japan, but mention of forced laborers was absent. Their lobbyist even admitted the local Japanese residents found it uncomfortable that industrialists were applying for UNESCO heritage ), hierarchy/authoritarianism, and general intolerance ( people with tattoos are not allowed into public baths. Customers will leave reviews about “dirty tattoos” if chefs accidentally didn’t cover up fully. I’ve even seen a particularly intolerant Buddhist temples that prohibited people who have tattoos or wear skirts )
    - Cyberdog 4y ago
      Thank you, netizen. Your wumao is on its way.
- karatinversion 4y ago
  謎だね。
labster 4y ago
Surprised to see this because it’s pretty basic knowledge of the Japanese syllabary. Adding a little double quote to a phonetic character changes the consonant from voiceless to voiced.
tkgally 4y ago
In another top-level response, Cyberdog asks, “Why is an article like this on the front page of HN?” That’s a very reasonable question. But now that the article is there, let me make a few comments about dakuten, handakuten, and hiragana in general. I grew up in the U.S., but I have been living in Japan, and mostly in Japanese, for nearly forty years. Thirty years ago, I watched my two daughters acquire Japanese as their first language, and now I am enjoying watching my two-year-old grandson grow up with the language as well. (He is also picking up some English from me.) What has struck me both times is how beneficial hiragana is to the acquisition of first-language literacy. Because there is nearly a one-to-one correspondence between symbol and pronunciation, many children learn to recognize hiragana words that they know very early—before age three, in the case of both my daughters and my grandson. I suspect that is much less common with English, because of the poor correspondence between symbols and phonemes. The full written Japanese language, especially kanji, is much more complex and irregular, of course. But that head-start in reading hiragana may help many children get interested in reading at an earlier age than with English. In the last week or so, my daughter and I have noticed that my grandson has started to read dakuten characters correctly. He now (usually) recognizes that since た is ta then だ is da and that since き is ki then ぎ is gi, that is, the cases in which the ゛(dakuten) indicates that the initial consonant becomes voiced. He doesn’t yet understand, though, how はひふへほ ha hi hu (fu) he ho becomes ばびぶべぼ ba bi bu be bo and ぱぴぷぺぽ pa pi pu pe po, because the difference between h and b/p is not just a simple voiceless-to-voiced change. According to a Japanese book on children’s language acquisition [1], many children learning Japanese as a first language have the same problem with the は series hiragana. [1] https://www.iwanami.co.jp/book/b281696.html https://www.iwanami.co.jp/book/b281696.html
- morninglight 4y ago
  Around 40 years ago Texas Instruments created the Speak & Spell as an English language educational toy [1]. I couldn't find anything quite like it in Japan. However, General Instrument produced a chip that could generate allophones for speech synthesis around the same time [2]. Much to my delight, the SP0256 could generate just about all the phonemes found in Japanese speech. I wrote a program to display hiragana text on an EGA monitor while generating corresponding speech from the SP0256. It worked very well, but unfortunately had a terribly robotic quality. I wisely decided to put it aside and instead accepted Chibi Maruko-chan as my instructor. I haven't been to Japan for a few years, but I imagine there must now be toys like the Speak & Spell to accelerate children's basic reading skills. Have you seen any? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speak_%26_Spell_(toy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speak_%26_Spell_(toy) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Instrument_SP0256 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Instrument_SP0256

7 points by lassmaglio 4y ago

Cyberdog 4y ago

なぜかにそのような記事はHNのフロントページにあるの。

temp 4y ago
If it has any mention of Japan or Germany in the title, it's bound to end up on the frontpage.
- asciiresort 4y ago
  It’s especially ironic when Japan is the embodiment of what the average tech person in the West purports to be ideologically offended by: nationalism ( celebration of war criminals, denialism of crimes in Pacific Theater as a hoax ) , racism ( and a racial superiority complex ), sexism ( top medical school recently found to set lower bar for male candidates ), sexual assault not being pursued by criminal justice system , animal rights, pollution ( Japan is one of the top recyclers, but everything is individually wrapped and wasteful ), cultural appropriation, classicism with remnants of feudalism, worshipping and upholding white male privilege, xenophobia ( Japan’s borders was once closed for hundreds of years. The border being restricted over the past 2 years is not surprising ), stubbornness to adapt to new technology, mega corporations controlling the narrative on “factory towns” ( visit Nagasaki and you will see the mainstream museums praise Mitsubishi Heavy Industries for its part in the industrialization of Japan, but mention of forced laborers was absent. Their lobbyist even admitted the local Japanese residents found it uncomfortable that industrialists were applying for UNESCO heritage ), hierarchy/authoritarianism, and general intolerance ( people with tattoos are not allowed into public baths. Customers will leave reviews about “dirty tattoos” if chefs accidentally didn’t cover up fully. I’ve even seen a particularly intolerant Buddhist temples that prohibited people who have tattoos or wear skirts )
  - Cyberdog 4y ago
    Thank you, netizen. Your wumao is on its way.
karatinversion 4y ago
謎だね。

labster 4y ago

Surprised to see this because it’s pretty basic knowledge of the Japanese syllabary. Adding a little double quote to a phonetic character changes the consonant from voiceless to voiced.

tkgally 4y ago

In another top-level response, Cyberdog asks, “Why is an article like this on the front page of HN?” That’s a very reasonable question. But now that the article is there, let me make a few comments about dakuten, handakuten, and hiragana in general. I grew up in the U.S., but I have been living in Japan, and mostly in Japanese, for nearly forty years. Thirty years ago, I watched my two daughters acquire Japanese as their first language, and now I am enjoying watching my two-year-old grandson grow up with the language as well. (He is also picking up some English from me.) What has struck me both times is how beneficial hiragana is to the acquisition of first-language literacy. Because there is nearly a one-to-one correspondence between symbol and pronunciation, many children learn to recognize hiragana words that they know very early—before age three, in the case of both my daughters and my grandson. I suspect that is much less common with English, because of the poor correspondence between symbols and phonemes. The full written Japanese language, especially kanji, is much more complex and irregular, of course. But that head-start in reading hiragana may help many children get interested in reading at an earlier age than with English. In the last week or so, my daughter and I have noticed that my grandson has started to read dakuten characters correctly. He now (usually) recognizes that since た is ta then だ is da and that since き is ki then ぎ is gi, that is, the cases in which the ゛(dakuten) indicates that the initial consonant becomes voiced. He doesn’t yet understand, though, how はひふへほ ha hi hu (fu) he ho becomes ばびぶべぼ ba bi bu be bo and ぱぴぷぺぽ pa pi pu pe po, because the difference between h and b/p is not just a simple voiceless-to-voiced change. According to a Japanese book on children’s language acquisition [1], many children learning Japanese as a first language have the same problem with the は series hiragana. [1] https://www.iwanami.co.jp/book/b281696.html https://www.iwanami.co.jp/book/b281696.html

morninglight 4y ago
Around 40 years ago Texas Instruments created the Speak & Spell as an English language educational toy [1]. I couldn't find anything quite like it in Japan. However, General Instrument produced a chip that could generate allophones for speech synthesis around the same time [2]. Much to my delight, the SP0256 could generate just about all the phonemes found in Japanese speech. I wrote a program to display hiragana text on an EGA monitor while generating corresponding speech from the SP0256. It worked very well, but unfortunately had a terribly robotic quality. I wisely decided to put it aside and instead accepted Chibi Maruko-chan as my instructor. I haven't been to Japan for a few years, but I imagine there must now be toys like the Speak & Spell to accelerate children's basic reading skills. Have you seen any? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speak_%26_Spell_(toy) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speak_%26_Spell_(toy) [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Instrument_SP0256 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Instrument_SP0256