8 ms·

Why the IRS Needs $80B

38 points by cameron_b 4y ago

tcpekin 4y ago
Mind boggling pictures - really shows just a tiny part of the scale, and just how manual the whole process still is. I can't imagine the difficulty of trying to upgrade systems that are 30-50 years old and maintain compatibility.
Woodi 4y ago
I love it, solid work there :) And pretty nicely shows how insecure post 70's computers are :> Don't blame Congress alone ! Edit: btw. that lady on the photo have bad chair or too high desk - monitor top should be a bit below head top :)
rrss 4y ago
This does not explain why the IRS needs $80 billion. Do each of these problems take billions of dollars to fix? $1B ~= 1000 engineers working for 10 years. $1B ~= buying 1.6 ORNL frontier supercomputers.
- Woodi 4y ago
  > "$80 billion through the Inflation Reduction Act — not only for more enforcement but also for tech modernization." Just part for computers and consultants fee. But maybe they have plans for old school shoppnigs - machines with tailor made OS, compilers and apps ? ;) But it will be a disaster if they plan to rent some cloud "computing power"... Data on Dark Net within a year ?
- gamblor956 4y ago
  Due to more than a decade of Republican budget cuts, the IRS's computer systems are very outdated, and due to those same budget cuts their staff levels are the lowest they've ever been in the modern era. Most of this $80 billion is going to be spent simply just bringing them up to adequate staffing and technology to meet their current needs.
PopAlongKid 4y ago
>Taxpayers are trapped in this time warp because Congress has systemically underinvested in the IRS. Only some taxpayers are "trapped", because they stubbornly refuse to efile their returns. The excess cost to process paper-filed returns of this minority is born directly and indirectly by all taxpayers. (It is very rare that efiling an income tax return is not possible). Fun fact: back in the late 1990s the IRS had a scannable paper Form 1040-PC[0], not clear why it was discontinued. Very recently, the Taxpayer Advocate recommended that IRS re-institute some form of scanning technology for paper returns, the IRS rejected the recommendation, and the TA is appealing that.[1] The IRS has actually made tremendous progress in allowing prior year returns to be efiled, and now amended returns can also be efiled. [0]https://www.taxnotes.com/research/federal/irs-guidance/forms-watch/irs-asks-for-omb-approval-of-form-1040pc/11189 https://www.taxnotes.com/research/federal/irs-guidance/forms... [1]https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/taxpayer-advocate-appeals-irs-decision-to-delay-scanning-tech https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/taxpayer-advocate-appea...
- brundolf 4y ago
  > Even if you, Joe Taxpayer, file your taxes electronically (as most Americans do), you still might land in paper purgatory. Any issues with your “e-filed” return, and the IRS sends you a letter; then, you must reply by snail mail or fax.
albatross13 4y ago
Alternative label: "Why the government spends more of your money to take even more of your money, only to give it to eastern europe or israel"
- mattkrause 4y ago
  FWIW, I read somewhere that increased enforcement is expected to be revenue-positive, with something like a 4x multiplier: the IRS is currently leaving lots of owed money on the table for want of someone to collect it.
  - drost 4y ago
    It's worth nothing. The government isn't supposed to generate revenue
    - mattkrause 4y ago
      If you don't want roads, defense, (some) healthcare, education, research, or any of the myriad other forms of infrastructure that makes civilization work, then sure, you don't need revenue. If you do, then I would prefer that everyone pay what we've (collectively) decided that they owe. In that sense, a revenue-positive measure is good two ways: spend a buck, get $4 AND it enhances the rule of law by making everyone pay what they owe.
      - albatross13 4y ago
        My state can handle all of that, I don't need a federal body that's 24tn in debt to steal even more of my money.
      - tomatotomato37 4y ago
        The thing is, the government already has enough income to do all that if they stop doing stupid shit like wasting the GDP equivalent of Mexico on invading desert shitholes or mass producing super-advanced fighter jets when our next closest peer can still be fought off with our cold war surplus But please, tell me more how giving my money to an entity who routinely invests money in "local" corporations only for them to immediately do buybacks and disappear the money into the haze of wall street economics improves my quality of life
globalreset 4y ago
- EricE 4y ago
  But then the whole cottage industry that is the parasite of tax filers and accountants latched onto our economy wouldn't exist either! And if they go away so do all their political contributions :p
- cercatrova 4y ago
  Consumption taxes disproportionately affect the poor, because prices of goods largely stay the same.
cco 4y ago
Only half joking, but the best ROI might just be hiring a few Gen Z auditors and having them watch TikTok. The amount of bragging that goes on there about tax evasion, or charitably tax ignorance, is hilarious.
EricE 4y ago
lol - the $80B is for agents, not clerks. Nice puff piece though.

38 points by cameron_b 4y ago

Mind boggling pictures - really shows just a tiny part of the scale, and just how manual the whole process still is. I can't imagine the difficulty of trying to upgrade systems that are 30-50 years old and maintain compatibility.

Woodi 4y ago

I love it, solid work there :) And pretty nicely shows how insecure post 70's computers are :> Don't blame Congress alone ! Edit: btw. that lady on the photo have bad chair or too high desk - monitor top should be a bit below head top :)

rrss 4y ago

This does not explain why the IRS needs $80 billion. Do each of these problems take billions of dollars to fix? $1B ~= 1000 engineers working for 10 years. $1B ~= buying 1.6 ORNL frontier supercomputers.

Woodi 4y ago
> "$80 billion through the Inflation Reduction Act — not only for more enforcement but also for tech modernization." Just part for computers and consultants fee. But maybe they have plans for old school shoppnigs - machines with tailor made OS, compilers and apps ? ;) But it will be a disaster if they plan to rent some cloud "computing power"... Data on Dark Net within a year ?
gamblor956 4y ago
Due to more than a decade of Republican budget cuts, the IRS's computer systems are very outdated, and due to those same budget cuts their staff levels are the lowest they've ever been in the modern era. Most of this $80 billion is going to be spent simply just bringing them up to adequate staffing and technology to meet their current needs.

PopAlongKid 4y ago

>Taxpayers are trapped in this time warp because Congress has systemically underinvested in the IRS. Only some taxpayers are "trapped", because they stubbornly refuse to efile their returns. The excess cost to process paper-filed returns of this minority is born directly and indirectly by all taxpayers. (It is very rare that efiling an income tax return is not possible). Fun fact: back in the late 1990s the IRS had a scannable paper Form 1040-PC[0], not clear why it was discontinued. Very recently, the Taxpayer Advocate recommended that IRS re-institute some form of scanning technology for paper returns, the IRS rejected the recommendation, and the TA is appealing that.[1] The IRS has actually made tremendous progress in allowing prior year returns to be efiled, and now amended returns can also be efiled. [0]https://www.taxnotes.com/research/federal/irs-guidance/forms-watch/irs-asks-for-omb-approval-of-form-1040pc/11189 https://www.taxnotes.com/research/federal/irs-guidance/forms... [1]https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/taxpayer-advocate-appeals-irs-decision-to-delay-scanning-tech https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/taxpayer-advocate-appea...

brundolf 4y ago
> Even if you, Joe Taxpayer, file your taxes electronically (as most Americans do), you still might land in paper purgatory. Any issues with your “e-filed” return, and the IRS sends you a letter; then, you must reply by snail mail or fax.

albatross13 4y ago

Alternative label: "Why the government spends more of your money to take even more of your money, only to give it to eastern europe or israel"

mattkrause 4y ago
FWIW, I read somewhere that increased enforcement is expected to be revenue-positive, with something like a 4x multiplier: the IRS is currently leaving lots of owed money on the table for want of someone to collect it.
- drost 4y ago
  It's worth nothing. The government isn't supposed to generate revenue
  - mattkrause 4y ago
    If you don't want roads, defense, (some) healthcare, education, research, or any of the myriad other forms of infrastructure that makes civilization work, then sure, you don't need revenue. If you do, then I would prefer that everyone pay what we've (collectively) decided that they owe. In that sense, a revenue-positive measure is good two ways: spend a buck, get $4 AND it enhances the rule of law by making everyone pay what they owe.
    - albatross13 4y ago
      My state can handle all of that, I don't need a federal body that's 24tn in debt to steal even more of my money.
    - tomatotomato37 4y ago
      The thing is, the government already has enough income to do all that if they stop doing stupid shit like wasting the GDP equivalent of Mexico on invading desert shitholes or mass producing super-advanced fighter jets when our next closest peer can still be fought off with our cold war surplus But please, tell me more how giving my money to an entity who routinely invests money in "local" corporations only for them to immediately do buybacks and disappear the money into the haze of wall street economics improves my quality of life

globalreset 4y ago

EricE 4y ago
But then the whole cottage industry that is the parasite of tax filers and accountants latched onto our economy wouldn't exist either! And if they go away so do all their political contributions :p
cercatrova 4y ago
Consumption taxes disproportionately affect the poor, because prices of goods largely stay the same.

cco 4y ago

Only half joking, but the best ROI might just be hiring a few Gen Z auditors and having them watch TikTok. The amount of bragging that goes on there about tax evasion, or charitably tax ignorance, is hilarious.

EricE 4y ago

lol - the $80B is for agents, not clerks. Nice puff piece though.