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I don't know if wisdom really helps. Or, maybe I just feel that way, because I lack it. How would wisdom help with happiness, when you see a likely worsening cl

I don't know if wisdom really helps. Or, maybe I just feel that way, because I lack it. How would wisdom help with happiness, when you see a likely worsening climate, rampant inequality for really no good reason, which together with the former is bound to cause significant sivil unrest and wars in the coming decades? In my limited version of it, is to strive to be humble, and the happiness for those around you. Find joy in helping the communities (whichever that be in the connected world) you care about. But... That still doesn't truly make me happy. And relies on willfully ignoring everything mention earlier. The only thing to hope for is a miracle in both energy production, and a sudden increase in empathy. I fear that human nature is stil stuck in a the ape mindset of "I got mine", and will never get out of.

anthropodie 4y ago
Wisdom, I think, wants us to focus on our abilities and what we can do. Things that are outside our control will always make us unhappy. So if we do our part I think we eventually find happiness in whatever change we were able to bring in this world. And when enough people do that we fix all the problems mentioned at beginning of your comment. > You want to change world? Go home and love your family. - Mother Teresa
- okamiueru 4y ago
  I don't want to sound like a contrarian, because, I sort of agree. Or, rather, I would like to be able to agree. Perhaps presumptuous, but I don't think wisdom goes together with either inaction, complacency, or otherwise willful ignorance. Which, seems to be the gist of the replies my previous comment received. I still think that not worrying/complaining about things we cannot control or affect holds true for many things, and many aspects. However, I disagree with the premise. We can all do something, some more than others. I've categorically refused jobs in the oil and gas sector, and increasingly become picky about what to devote my professional life to. I very consciously try not to be a consumerist, though I'm probably in the global top 10%, given statistics for my country. I eat meat, even though it doesn't help. I have traveled the world for my own amusement, though I've come to see it as an absolutely ridiculous thing to have done. I could definitely do more. I could actively devote my life to it. I could decide not to have kids. Etc. Is it wisdom to ignore these problems? Or to find happiness as a state of mind, in spite of it? I would assume it's the latter. I just don't know if wisdom is the right word for it. But maybe it is.
willcipriano 4y ago
> when you see a likely worsening climate, rampant inequality for really no good reason What are you, as an individual able to do about any of that? Think about it the other way, if you wanted to make it worse could you meaningfully? Could you make the seas rise by even a single millimeter? Probably not. Now say you wanted to make it better, a single private jet trip for a CEO to visit his mistress will wipe out any gains you have made. What does your worrying do? Great you aren't "willfully ignorant" but since your ideal future requires a miracle anyway, and you aren't God, it's out of your hands. You are probably like almost every other person who has ever lived, you don't matter at all. Nothing you do will meaningfully echo throughout history. Once you are gone, nobody will ever say your name again. What's true about you is probably also true about the human race. The sun will consume the earth eventually, we will either leave this rock, or die on it. Why not enjoy your brief time here?
- ziddoap 4y ago
  Not everyone finds comfort in nihilism; it can be pretty off-putting to read something like "you don't matter at all, and will be quickly forgotten" and than be told "so, enjoy!".
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    Is it nihilism? A plage could evolve and wipe out the human race at any time, a asteroid could end all life here in a instant. Most people are engaging in "nihilism" on those topics, and many others, but if they instead made the choice to dwell on them it wouldn't make them any less likely. I suggest simply you engage in "nihilism" on a few more things you have no control over.
    - ziddoap 4y ago
      >Is it nihilism? Yes. >You are probably like almost every other person who has ever lived, you don't matter at all. Nothing you do will meaningfully echo throughout history. That sentence is basically the definition of nihilism. I don't see any possible interpretation of it which isn't categorically nihilistic. >I suggest simply you engage in "nihilism" on a few more things you have no control over. I get what you are saying, and broadly agree with it, but that wasn't the point of my comment. I wasn't commenting on whether or not your take on the subject is helpful or not, just that the delivery of "you don't matter [...] enjoy it" is off-putting to the many people who don't take such a nihilistic viewpoint, and probably does no favors in convincing them such a view would be beneficial.
zaphar 4y ago
The relationship between wisdom and intelligence is complicated in practice. But the benefit of wisdom is often that it allows you to accept the bad that you can't fix or affect and move on. You can't single handedly fix any of the problems you highlight. The most you can do is alter your own behavior but let go of the consequences of other peoples behavior. You can't do anything about it. The balancing act of wisdom is that: * You can care about and advocate for solutions. * But you can't own the success or failure because it's not realistic for you to do so.
achenet 4y ago
> The only thing to hope for is a miracle in both energy production, and a sudden increase in empathy. Humans can work miracles sometimes. We came up with microprocessors, I'm sure we'll think of a good way to increase energy production and empathy. :) > I fear that human nature is stil stuck in a the ape mindset of "I got mine", and will never get out of. Maybe it will. No reason not to hope.
- okamiueru 4y ago
  I do have hope for the former. I expect it to come at a high cost, since we are already a bit too late. We did manage to do well with the ozone layer. Prediction models still put as at a likely unparalleled humanitarian crisis, even if we act more and faster than we will. As for human empathy, much more unlikely. Humans are born flawed, selfish and amoral. It has to be taught away. To reach the point of a world society that can reliably "fix" this, for a large enough percentage, would be a more impressive feat IMO than solving the coming food and energy crisis. If only we had evolved from the bonobos instead of the chimps. There is still room for hope, I agree. It's just that the rational part thinks the hopeful one is being naive.

anthropodie 4y ago

Wisdom, I think, wants us to focus on our abilities and what we can do. Things that are outside our control will always make us unhappy. So if we do our part I think we eventually find happiness in whatever change we were able to bring in this world. And when enough people do that we fix all the problems mentioned at beginning of your comment. > You want to change world? Go home and love your family. - Mother Teresa

okamiueru 4y ago
I don't want to sound like a contrarian, because, I sort of agree. Or, rather, I would like to be able to agree. Perhaps presumptuous, but I don't think wisdom goes together with either inaction, complacency, or otherwise willful ignorance. Which, seems to be the gist of the replies my previous comment received. I still think that not worrying/complaining about things we cannot control or affect holds true for many things, and many aspects. However, I disagree with the premise. We can all do something, some more than others. I've categorically refused jobs in the oil and gas sector, and increasingly become picky about what to devote my professional life to. I very consciously try not to be a consumerist, though I'm probably in the global top 10%, given statistics for my country. I eat meat, even though it doesn't help. I have traveled the world for my own amusement, though I've come to see it as an absolutely ridiculous thing to have done. I could definitely do more. I could actively devote my life to it. I could decide not to have kids. Etc. Is it wisdom to ignore these problems? Or to find happiness as a state of mind, in spite of it? I would assume it's the latter. I just don't know if wisdom is the right word for it. But maybe it is.

willcipriano 4y ago

> when you see a likely worsening climate, rampant inequality for really no good reason What are you, as an individual able to do about any of that? Think about it the other way, if you wanted to make it worse could you meaningfully? Could you make the seas rise by even a single millimeter? Probably not. Now say you wanted to make it better, a single private jet trip for a CEO to visit his mistress will wipe out any gains you have made. What does your worrying do? Great you aren't "willfully ignorant" but since your ideal future requires a miracle anyway, and you aren't God, it's out of your hands. You are probably like almost every other person who has ever lived, you don't matter at all. Nothing you do will meaningfully echo throughout history. Once you are gone, nobody will ever say your name again. What's true about you is probably also true about the human race. The sun will consume the earth eventually, we will either leave this rock, or die on it. Why not enjoy your brief time here?

ziddoap 4y ago
Not everyone finds comfort in nihilism; it can be pretty off-putting to read something like "you don't matter at all, and will be quickly forgotten" and than be told "so, enjoy!".
- willcipriano 4y ago
  Is it nihilism? A plage could evolve and wipe out the human race at any time, a asteroid could end all life here in a instant. Most people are engaging in "nihilism" on those topics, and many others, but if they instead made the choice to dwell on them it wouldn't make them any less likely. I suggest simply you engage in "nihilism" on a few more things you have no control over.
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    >Is it nihilism? Yes. >You are probably like almost every other person who has ever lived, you don't matter at all. Nothing you do will meaningfully echo throughout history. That sentence is basically the definition of nihilism. I don't see any possible interpretation of it which isn't categorically nihilistic. >I suggest simply you engage in "nihilism" on a few more things you have no control over. I get what you are saying, and broadly agree with it, but that wasn't the point of my comment. I wasn't commenting on whether or not your take on the subject is helpful or not, just that the delivery of "you don't matter [...] enjoy it" is off-putting to the many people who don't take such a nihilistic viewpoint, and probably does no favors in convincing them such a view would be beneficial.

zaphar 4y ago

The relationship between wisdom and intelligence is complicated in practice. But the benefit of wisdom is often that it allows you to accept the bad that you can't fix or affect and move on. You can't single handedly fix any of the problems you highlight. The most you can do is alter your own behavior but let go of the consequences of other peoples behavior. You can't do anything about it. The balancing act of wisdom is that: * You can care about and advocate for solutions. * But you can't own the success or failure because it's not realistic for you to do so.

achenet 4y ago

> The only thing to hope for is a miracle in both energy production, and a sudden increase in empathy. Humans can work miracles sometimes. We came up with microprocessors, I'm sure we'll think of a good way to increase energy production and empathy. :) > I fear that human nature is stil stuck in a the ape mindset of "I got mine", and will never get out of. Maybe it will. No reason not to hope.

okamiueru 4y ago
I do have hope for the former. I expect it to come at a high cost, since we are already a bit too late. We did manage to do well with the ozone layer. Prediction models still put as at a likely unparalleled humanitarian crisis, even if we act more and faster than we will. As for human empathy, much more unlikely. Humans are born flawed, selfish and amoral. It has to be taught away. To reach the point of a world society that can reliably "fix" this, for a large enough percentage, would be a more impressive feat IMO than solving the coming food and energy crisis. If only we had evolved from the bonobos instead of the chimps. There is still room for hope, I agree. It's just that the rational part thinks the hopeful one is being naive.