4 ms·

Indeed, I do wonder why industry still defaults to sql/relational instead of mature nosqls (there aint just mongo)

kortilla 4y ago
Because schemas let you agree on the shape of the data without having to pull in applications to query things for reporting, analysis, etc. Additionally, forcing things into a correct schema also protects you from a lot of data inconsistencies out of the box. Finally, the dbms is going to be far better at JOINs than your application will. Nearly every web application needs JOINs at some point. Developers just don’t recognize what they are doing so they don’t realize what they are missing out on by doing it at the application layer.
- hardware2win 4y ago
  "At some point", but how much? I believe it is up to modeling skills Anyway - Schema slows development as hell, you need to maintain mapper layer between domain models and db models unless you model your system with anemic model mixed with tech stuff(db), but it is mess Additionally you deal with either stringly typed sql Or ORMs that require months of practice to be proficient even in c# which has LINQ
senttoschool 4y ago
Besides all the benefits of relational DBs, I'll give you my main reason for not starting with a NoSQL database: Because eventually, you'd want to analyze that data and it's a huge pain to do it with NoSQL. Imagine if you hired a business analyst and she needs to look at the data. Are you going to expect her to learn Javascript to query the data? Are you going to write an ETL pipeline to move data from a NoSQL db to an SQL db? Note: I know many NoSQL DBs now support SQL queries.
corobo 4y ago
Personally it's a lack of trust. I've set up databases, I've broken databases, I've restored databases, I've scaled databases, and I've migrated them. Never lost so much as a nibble of data. My introduction to NoSQL was an article about Mongo losing someone's production data. Not even all of the data - partial data loss, the worst kind of data loss. I'm just gonna head off that massive headache at day 0 and use an ACID compliant database. From there it's lack of experience. Same reason I wouldn't decide to write my next thing in a new language unless I was specifically learning that language.
- jd_mongodb 4y ago
  Do you have a reference to that article?
  - corobo 4y ago
    Honestly we're talking at least a decade ago or so at this point, sorry. It was a first impressions thing that stopped any further investigation, not a comment on the current state of NoSQL
  - hardware2win 4y ago
    Imma guess Jepsen
- hardware2win 4y ago
  But as I prev. said NoSQL is not limited to Mongo Ppl hate nosql cuz of mongo when there are other dbs, e.g RavenDB >I'm just gonna head off that massive headache at day 0 and use an ACID compliant database. It is just ACID vs BASE
  - corobo 4y ago
    I don't hate nosql. I nothing it. I do not have any knowledge or skillset that includes it. I am most definitely naive towards any strengths and capabilities it may have over an SQL database. I also have no reason to learn it at this time, an SQL database wins uncontested whenever I need to store data. If I was to start a new project I wouldn't pick that moment to learn a new programming language. Same thing, different part of the stack Honestly what it'd take would be the next WordPress or whatever using nosql by default. Make it need learning
- bpicolo 4y ago
  MongoDB supports a variety of sorts of ACID transactions in the current day and age https://www.mongodb.com/basics/acid-transactions https://www.mongodb.com/basics/acid-transactions
goto11 4y ago
Because a relational database give you schemas, constraints and a query language out of the box.

Because schemas let you agree on the shape of the data without having to pull in applications to query things for reporting, analysis, etc. Additionally, forcing things into a correct schema also protects you from a lot of data inconsistencies out of the box. Finally, the dbms is going to be far better at JOINs than your application will. Nearly every web application needs JOINs at some point. Developers just don’t recognize what they are doing so they don’t realize what they are missing out on by doing it at the application layer.

hardware2win 4y ago
"At some point", but how much? I believe it is up to modeling skills Anyway - Schema slows development as hell, you need to maintain mapper layer between domain models and db models unless you model your system with anemic model mixed with tech stuff(db), but it is mess Additionally you deal with either stringly typed sql Or ORMs that require months of practice to be proficient even in c# which has LINQ

senttoschool 4y ago

Besides all the benefits of relational DBs, I'll give you my main reason for not starting with a NoSQL database: Because eventually, you'd want to analyze that data and it's a huge pain to do it with NoSQL. Imagine if you hired a business analyst and she needs to look at the data. Are you going to expect her to learn Javascript to query the data? Are you going to write an ETL pipeline to move data from a NoSQL db to an SQL db? Note: I know many NoSQL DBs now support SQL queries.

corobo 4y ago

Personally it's a lack of trust. I've set up databases, I've broken databases, I've restored databases, I've scaled databases, and I've migrated them. Never lost so much as a nibble of data. My introduction to NoSQL was an article about Mongo losing someone's production data. Not even all of the data - partial data loss, the worst kind of data loss. I'm just gonna head off that massive headache at day 0 and use an ACID compliant database. From there it's lack of experience. Same reason I wouldn't decide to write my next thing in a new language unless I was specifically learning that language.

jd_mongodb 4y ago
Do you have a reference to that article?
- corobo 4y ago
  Honestly we're talking at least a decade ago or so at this point, sorry. It was a first impressions thing that stopped any further investigation, not a comment on the current state of NoSQL
- hardware2win 4y ago
  Imma guess Jepsen
hardware2win 4y ago
But as I prev. said NoSQL is not limited to Mongo Ppl hate nosql cuz of mongo when there are other dbs, e.g RavenDB >I'm just gonna head off that massive headache at day 0 and use an ACID compliant database. It is just ACID vs BASE
- corobo 4y ago
  I don't hate nosql. I nothing it. I do not have any knowledge or skillset that includes it. I am most definitely naive towards any strengths and capabilities it may have over an SQL database. I also have no reason to learn it at this time, an SQL database wins uncontested whenever I need to store data. If I was to start a new project I wouldn't pick that moment to learn a new programming language. Same thing, different part of the stack Honestly what it'd take would be the next WordPress or whatever using nosql by default. Make it need learning
bpicolo 4y ago
MongoDB supports a variety of sorts of ACID transactions in the current day and age https://www.mongodb.com/basics/acid-transactions https://www.mongodb.com/basics/acid-transactions

goto11 4y ago

Because a relational database give you schemas, constraints and a query language out of the box.