5 ms·

Is it legally fraud of a ad SDK uses these kinda of tricks? I encounter these kinds of tricks in many of the games my daughter plays on the iPad and hate it imm

by wsc981 4y ago

Is it legally fraud of a ad SDK uses these kinda of tricks? I encounter these kinds of tricks in many of the games my daughter plays on the iPad and hate it immensely, but it seems everybody gets away with it ... Are there any laws that should prevent these kinds of dark patterns?

jerrre 4y ago
I would imagine that if something is deemed fraud, it's the ad-space buyer that is deemed the victim, as they're paying for clicks that aren't genuine interest, and not the user/viewer. IANAL etc, but I thought it would be good to add the distinction.
otabdeveloper4 4y ago
It's not a dark pattern, because it doesn't really benefit anyone. Just destroys the signal by drowning it in noise so advertising becomes just a little bit dumber.
- rhodorhoades 4y ago
  It benefits the app creator, and whoever is behind the ad serving to the detriment of the person doing the advertising. They get charged each time someone clicks that add.
  - RA_Fisher 4y ago
    The person advertising has all the data they need to determine performance, just add statistics know-how.
  - otabdeveloper4 4y ago
    > They get charged each time someone clicks that add. Well, no. Not really. The client wants to buy an actionable contact with a real person at the end of the deal. The app creator can try selling counterfeit goods, but this trick only works once and the next time the client will demand payment on the basis of something other than clicks. (And this process has already happened many years ago; nobody charges per click in 2022.)
colourgarden 4y ago
OP didn't directly say such dark patterns are fraudulent. They said AppLovin was committing fraudulent activity and then that Unity uses dark patterns.
knolan 4y ago
I got Apple Arcade and it’s been great for my kids. I can limit what games get installed and they are free of this obnoxious crap.
- password4321 4y ago
  Kindle FreeTime doesn't really offer much for limits except intended age but is similarly non-obnoxious.
- RA_Fisher 4y ago
  Yes! I love Apple Arcade for this reason, too.
  - knolan 4y ago
    Especially because I only typically let them use it on the Apple TV and not a phone or iPad. They get to use a physical controller (DS4) and we can talk about their game as they play. So it’s less mindless and we can keep an eye on what they’re exposed to in game.
- bayindirh 4y ago
  I got Apple Arcade subscription for myself for the same reason. No ads, no pay to win mechanics, and some great games, too.
  - BTCOG 4y ago
    There are virtually no good games on Apple Arcade. Had it for a year, nothing but goofy cell-shaded 6 year old child's games with maybe three or four titles like Jetpack Joyride or Crossy Road to piggy back off. I can't imagine how an adult can enjoy what's in the Apple Arcade and I really gave it the benefit of the doubt.
    - bayindirh 4y ago
      Alto’s Adventure and Alto’s Odyssey are a nice duo for 5 minute breaks. Samorost series are old, but nice adventure games. Mini Motorways and Mini Metro are nice tactical games to exercise the brain. Fantasian is a fantastic game and has a great story.
yieldcrv 4y ago
You have to report it and get the regulator involved to find out If you just dismiss this as “kids games on an ipad” then everyone gets away with it the reality is that the entire adspend industry is fraudulent or has a large component of fraud
xyos 4y ago
I installed pi-hole in my house just for this.
- dmix 4y ago
  How much time did it take to research + install a Pi-hole?
  - briffle 4y ago
    I used a pi-hole, but wanted it to work outside my home as well. NextDNS uses many of the same blocklists, and I happily pay $20/year for it. Also has apps for devices that roam from the house. https://nextdns.io/pricing https://nextdns.io/pricing
  - amag 4y ago
    They try to make it super easy: https://pi-hole.net/ https://pi-hole.net/ and I have no recollection of encountering any issues. OTOH I am a software engineer working with Linux and network related stuff. The issues comes later when some pages may break. When that happens you need to stop bashing your computer and add some URLs to the Pi-hole whitelist (or skip those parts of the web...). In my experience there has been few issues. Some enterprisey stuff my wife needed for work depended on some oracle tracking URLs that were blocked if I remember correctly.
    - wil421 4y ago
      Can you write exceptions for IPs within your network? I’d like to exclude our work laptops from filtering. Both laptops have static IPs on my network. Reading more I could just change my devices dns settings to use what I want. A little more cumbersome and requires local admin on windows.
      - happyopossum 4y ago
        You can create IP based exceptions, or you can point those machines at another dns resolver. Either works.
soared 4y ago
In every comparable instance the company will provide a “make good” where they don’t bill you for that same amount on the next billing cycle. My company didn’t because the US is a small fraction of the company and they aren’t too invested in spending time/resources here.

by wsc981 4y ago

jerrre 4y ago

I would imagine that if something is deemed fraud, it's the ad-space buyer that is deemed the victim, as they're paying for clicks that aren't genuine interest, and not the user/viewer. IANAL etc, but I thought it would be good to add the distinction.

otabdeveloper4 4y ago

It's not a dark pattern, because it doesn't really benefit anyone. Just destroys the signal by drowning it in noise so advertising becomes just a little bit dumber.

rhodorhoades 4y ago
It benefits the app creator, and whoever is behind the ad serving to the detriment of the person doing the advertising. They get charged each time someone clicks that add.
- RA_Fisher 4y ago
  The person advertising has all the data they need to determine performance, just add statistics know-how.
- otabdeveloper4 4y ago
  > They get charged each time someone clicks that add. Well, no. Not really. The client wants to buy an actionable contact with a real person at the end of the deal. The app creator can try selling counterfeit goods, but this trick only works once and the next time the client will demand payment on the basis of something other than clicks. (And this process has already happened many years ago; nobody charges per click in 2022.)

colourgarden 4y ago

OP didn't directly say such dark patterns are fraudulent. They said AppLovin was committing fraudulent activity and then that Unity uses dark patterns.

knolan 4y ago

I got Apple Arcade and it’s been great for my kids. I can limit what games get installed and they are free of this obnoxious crap.

password4321 4y ago
Kindle FreeTime doesn't really offer much for limits except intended age but is similarly non-obnoxious.
RA_Fisher 4y ago
Yes! I love Apple Arcade for this reason, too.
- knolan 4y ago
  Especially because I only typically let them use it on the Apple TV and not a phone or iPad. They get to use a physical controller (DS4) and we can talk about their game as they play. So it’s less mindless and we can keep an eye on what they’re exposed to in game.
bayindirh 4y ago
I got Apple Arcade subscription for myself for the same reason. No ads, no pay to win mechanics, and some great games, too.
- BTCOG 4y ago
  There are virtually no good games on Apple Arcade. Had it for a year, nothing but goofy cell-shaded 6 year old child's games with maybe three or four titles like Jetpack Joyride or Crossy Road to piggy back off. I can't imagine how an adult can enjoy what's in the Apple Arcade and I really gave it the benefit of the doubt.
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    Alto’s Adventure and Alto’s Odyssey are a nice duo for 5 minute breaks. Samorost series are old, but nice adventure games. Mini Motorways and Mini Metro are nice tactical games to exercise the brain. Fantasian is a fantastic game and has a great story.

yieldcrv 4y ago

You have to report it and get the regulator involved to find out If you just dismiss this as “kids games on an ipad” then everyone gets away with it the reality is that the entire adspend industry is fraudulent or has a large component of fraud

xyos 4y ago

I installed pi-hole in my house just for this.

dmix 4y ago
How much time did it take to research + install a Pi-hole?
- briffle 4y ago
  I used a pi-hole, but wanted it to work outside my home as well. NextDNS uses many of the same blocklists, and I happily pay $20/year for it. Also has apps for devices that roam from the house. https://nextdns.io/pricing https://nextdns.io/pricing
- amag 4y ago
  They try to make it super easy: https://pi-hole.net/ https://pi-hole.net/ and I have no recollection of encountering any issues. OTOH I am a software engineer working with Linux and network related stuff. The issues comes later when some pages may break. When that happens you need to stop bashing your computer and add some URLs to the Pi-hole whitelist (or skip those parts of the web...). In my experience there has been few issues. Some enterprisey stuff my wife needed for work depended on some oracle tracking URLs that were blocked if I remember correctly.
  - wil421 4y ago
    Can you write exceptions for IPs within your network? I’d like to exclude our work laptops from filtering. Both laptops have static IPs on my network. Reading more I could just change my devices dns settings to use what I want. A little more cumbersome and requires local admin on windows.
    - happyopossum 4y ago
      You can create IP based exceptions, or you can point those machines at another dns resolver. Either works.

soared 4y ago

In every comparable instance the company will provide a “make good” where they don’t bill you for that same amount on the next billing cycle. My company didn’t because the US is a small fraction of the company and they aren’t too invested in spending time/resources here.