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So today the wheel of who-do-we-blame-for-fucking-the-earth settles on commercial fishermen. The reality is that the actual wheel points at me and you and every

So today the wheel of who-do-we-blame-for-fucking-the-earth settles on commercial fishermen. The reality is that the actual wheel points at me and you and everyone we know (and everyone we don’t). If you’re reading this, the lifestyle you’re living is very likely incompatible with a planet that isn’t ravaged by climate change. You’ve got to make drastic changes to how you choose to live and do everything you can to get everyone else to make drastic changes to how they choose to live. Don’t like the sound of that? It’s OK, just blame those darn fishermen for leaving plastic in the oceans.

steve_adams_86 4y ago
One of the most dramatic changes an individual can make is switching to a plant based diet. Don’t support fishing, don’t support animal agriculture, and you’re way ahead. Not only in energy expenditure but resource utilization as well. It’s a stunning difference.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  Doesn't shipping plant-based food around the planet cause massive climate change? PLant-based diets only make sense if you live somewhere where it's ecologically cheaper to eat plants than animals. This doesn't work, for most of the world.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    Shipping anything around the world causes massive climate change. > This doesn't work, for most of the world. Yes, other than significant parts of Asia, North America, South America, Africa, and Europe this is a non-starter.
    - Gordonjcp 4y ago
      Tell me you don't know where food comes from without saying you don't know where food comes from.
  - WorkLobster 4y ago
    There's a great and very comprehensive chart by "Our World in Data" about the breakdown of emissions / environmental impact for different foods: https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/02/Environmental-impact-of-food-by-life-cycle-stage.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/02/Environmental-imp... As you can see, it specifically points out that the transport aspect pales across the board in comparison with other more important factors.
  - ornornor 4y ago
    There is a Kurzgesagt video on that exact point. Their analysis is that the emissions from shipping plants from further away to make your tofu is a drop in the bucket compared to the emissions you won’t be generating anymore by not consuming meat anymore. Meat which has to also have their food plants shipped around to them, on top of everything else. See https://youtu.be/F1Hq8eVOMHs https://youtu.be/F1Hq8eVOMHs
    - Gordonjcp 4y ago
      Okay but animals raised for meat don't eat food shipped from round the world.
      - paulcole 4y ago
        Oh awesome, I've always wanted to talk to someone with experience in the global meat industry. Can you answer a few questions?
        Gordonjcp 4y ago
        I'm guessing you're a vegan?
        paulcole 4y ago
        I eat a plant-based diet but I don’t have an ethical problem with buying used wool sweaters or used leather belts/shoes. Also if a cookie or something is free or going to waste, I won’t ask if it has egg or milk in it as an ingredient. So no, not vegan.
      - ornornor 4y ago
        They do, soy for animal feed is grown far far away.
        Gordonjcp 4y ago
        You don't feed livestock soy, it's too expensive. The animal feed that contains soy is made from the stuff that humans can't eat - roughly 80% of the plant mass of soy is simply inedible by humans. If you've got a clever trick for using this without running it through a cow, you'll be rich. Otherwise, what are you going to do with it? Pile it up and let it rot, releasing even more carbon dioxide and methane?
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    As others have pointed out, the data shows that it clearly works well for most of the world. For cases where it doesn’t make sense (these are exceedingly rare), they should do what works best for them. If we were to ship the equivalent calories and nutrition in vegetable form we would be able to ship it earlier and more often than the meat, too. Plant based nutrition is more abundant, more efficient, and more secure in almost every region of the earth. The only case where meat makes rational sense is generally when you prefer the taste and/or calorie density. This doesn’t often make sense on a population scale. I don’t think it makes sense for individuals either, but that is still considered opinion these days.
throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
which reality do you live in? the one where everyone lives in a mcmansion, drives a F150 and making an international flight on their private jet every other day? 60% of the population in the US is one paycheck away from being homeless. what the fuck do you propose they do, stop eating? begin with yourself. send the plastic toy you've typed this on to recycling and don't buy another one.
- paulcole 4y ago
  Yeah, I’m aware that I’m the problem. Here’s what I’m willing to do: not eat meat, not drive a car, not fly in planes, not live in single family housing, not use air conditioning for my apartment, and not have kids. Is that enough? No. But it’s all I’m willing to do.
  - throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
    >and not have kids glad to hear that

steve_adams_86 4y ago

One of the most dramatic changes an individual can make is switching to a plant based diet. Don’t support fishing, don’t support animal agriculture, and you’re way ahead. Not only in energy expenditure but resource utilization as well. It’s a stunning difference.

Gordonjcp 4y ago
Doesn't shipping plant-based food around the planet cause massive climate change? PLant-based diets only make sense if you live somewhere where it's ecologically cheaper to eat plants than animals. This doesn't work, for most of the world.
- paulcole 4y ago
  Shipping anything around the world causes massive climate change. > This doesn't work, for most of the world. Yes, other than significant parts of Asia, North America, South America, Africa, and Europe this is a non-starter.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    Tell me you don't know where food comes from without saying you don't know where food comes from.
- WorkLobster 4y ago
  There's a great and very comprehensive chart by "Our World in Data" about the breakdown of emissions / environmental impact for different foods: https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/02/Environmental-impact-of-food-by-life-cycle-stage.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/02/Environmental-imp... As you can see, it specifically points out that the transport aspect pales across the board in comparison with other more important factors.
- ornornor 4y ago
  There is a Kurzgesagt video on that exact point. Their analysis is that the emissions from shipping plants from further away to make your tofu is a drop in the bucket compared to the emissions you won’t be generating anymore by not consuming meat anymore. Meat which has to also have their food plants shipped around to them, on top of everything else. See https://youtu.be/F1Hq8eVOMHs https://youtu.be/F1Hq8eVOMHs
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    Okay but animals raised for meat don't eat food shipped from round the world.
    - paulcole 4y ago
      Oh awesome, I've always wanted to talk to someone with experience in the global meat industry. Can you answer a few questions?
      - Gordonjcp 4y ago
        I'm guessing you're a vegan?
        paulcole 4y ago
        I eat a plant-based diet but I don’t have an ethical problem with buying used wool sweaters or used leather belts/shoes. Also if a cookie or something is free or going to waste, I won’t ask if it has egg or milk in it as an ingredient. So no, not vegan.
    - ornornor 4y ago
      They do, soy for animal feed is grown far far away.
      - Gordonjcp 4y ago
        You don't feed livestock soy, it's too expensive. The animal feed that contains soy is made from the stuff that humans can't eat - roughly 80% of the plant mass of soy is simply inedible by humans. If you've got a clever trick for using this without running it through a cow, you'll be rich. Otherwise, what are you going to do with it? Pile it up and let it rot, releasing even more carbon dioxide and methane?
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  As others have pointed out, the data shows that it clearly works well for most of the world. For cases where it doesn’t make sense (these are exceedingly rare), they should do what works best for them. If we were to ship the equivalent calories and nutrition in vegetable form we would be able to ship it earlier and more often than the meat, too. Plant based nutrition is more abundant, more efficient, and more secure in almost every region of the earth. The only case where meat makes rational sense is generally when you prefer the taste and/or calorie density. This doesn’t often make sense on a population scale. I don’t think it makes sense for individuals either, but that is still considered opinion these days.

throwaway0x7E6 4y ago

which reality do you live in? the one where everyone lives in a mcmansion, drives a F150 and making an international flight on their private jet every other day? 60% of the population in the US is one paycheck away from being homeless. what the fuck do you propose they do, stop eating? begin with yourself. send the plastic toy you've typed this on to recycling and don't buy another one.

paulcole 4y ago
Yeah, I’m aware that I’m the problem. Here’s what I’m willing to do: not eat meat, not drive a car, not fly in planes, not live in single family housing, not use air conditioning for my apartment, and not have kids. Is that enough? No. But it’s all I’m willing to do.
- throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
  >and not have kids glad to hear that