3 ms·

Matrix solved federated messaging already

by tcfhgj 4y ago

samat 4y ago
As did email with PGP before it /sarcasm off
paulryanrogers 4y ago
Not fully encrypted yet though, not even if everyone opts into encryption. And if we want to be technical XMPP was before that and it was federated by some large networks, however briefly.
- tcfhgj 4y ago
  Of course fully encrypted
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    As of 2021-08 that doesn't appear to be the case > It however turned out that although the content of the message is encrypted, there is still a lot of user identifiable data that is not encrypted and can be seen by potential attackers.[0] [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666281721000159 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266628172...
    - ptman 4y ago
      Message content can be fully end-to-end encrypted. Federation needs some unencrypted metadata. Some of it can be reduced, but some will be needed for federation to work. Signal probably needs less unencrypted metadata, but you lose federation.
    - tcfhgj 4y ago
      Please encrypt user identifiable data like the recipient of a message such that only the recipient can read it
    - viridian 4y ago
      The amount of required metadata to maintain federation is very small. Some matrix instances operate in this minimalist or near minimalist domain, but in my experience, getting folks to share their custom forks of matrix requires some social schmoozing. For better or worse, much of the fediverse is made up of small enclaves of hyper-paranoid tech weirdos who have often reinvented the wheel over and over, each in their own little group, which is a big problem for the casual person who wants to toss a server on a home server for friends and family. And I say this as one of these hyper-paranoid tech weirdos. The network's growth is immensely stifled by the fact that people aren't keen on sharing, or building user friendly tools for the normies.
kelnos 4y ago
Is Matrix built into the default, stock messaging apps of Android and iOS? No, it's not, so it does not solve the problem I've posed in any useful way. (Beyond that, I've found the usability of Matrix on both desktop and mobile to be atrocious.)
- tcfhgj 4y ago
  Yes, it does. It could easily be the backend of the messaging apps without you noticing any difference

Matrix solved federated messaging already

by tcfhgj 4y ago

Matrix solved federated messaging already

samat 4y ago

As did email with PGP before it /sarcasm off

paulryanrogers 4y ago

Not fully encrypted yet though, not even if everyone opts into encryption. And if we want to be technical XMPP was before that and it was federated by some large networks, however briefly.

tcfhgj 4y ago
Of course fully encrypted
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  As of 2021-08 that doesn't appear to be the case > It however turned out that although the content of the message is encrypted, there is still a lot of user identifiable data that is not encrypted and can be seen by potential attackers.[0] [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666281721000159 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266628172...
  - ptman 4y ago
    Message content can be fully end-to-end encrypted. Federation needs some unencrypted metadata. Some of it can be reduced, but some will be needed for federation to work. Signal probably needs less unencrypted metadata, but you lose federation.
  - tcfhgj 4y ago
    Please encrypt user identifiable data like the recipient of a message such that only the recipient can read it
  - viridian 4y ago
    The amount of required metadata to maintain federation is very small. Some matrix instances operate in this minimalist or near minimalist domain, but in my experience, getting folks to share their custom forks of matrix requires some social schmoozing. For better or worse, much of the fediverse is made up of small enclaves of hyper-paranoid tech weirdos who have often reinvented the wheel over and over, each in their own little group, which is a big problem for the casual person who wants to toss a server on a home server for friends and family. And I say this as one of these hyper-paranoid tech weirdos. The network's growth is immensely stifled by the fact that people aren't keen on sharing, or building user friendly tools for the normies.

kelnos 4y ago

Is Matrix built into the default, stock messaging apps of Android and iOS? No, it's not, so it does not solve the problem I've posed in any useful way. (Beyond that, I've found the usability of Matrix on both desktop and mobile to be atrocious.)

tcfhgj 4y ago
Yes, it does. It could easily be the backend of the messaging apps without you noticing any difference