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I don't find trucks and commercial vehicles getting a pass all that strange, they are far more essential than passenger vehicles. I consider most roads and bas

by dahdum 4y ago

I don't find trucks and commercial vehicles getting a pass all that strange, they are far more essential than passenger vehicles. I consider most roads and basically all highways as meant for them, passenger vehicles are the luxury.

dimitrios1 4y ago
The interstate highway system was not built for commercial trucking. > In the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1938, Congress asked the BPR for a report on "the feasibility of building, and cost of, superhighways... including the feasibility of a toll system on such roads." The BPR based its report on data collected from extensive highway planning surveys that had been conducted around the country beginning in 1935. The origin-and-destination surveys showed that transcontinental traffic was limited, with traffic heaviest around cities and in interregional movements. Given the low income of most motorists, toll roads would have a traffic-repelling character. As a result, most routes would not carry enough traffic to generate sufficient revenue to pay off bonds needed to finance their construction. Instead, the BPR recommended construction of a network of toll-free express highways. The BPR's description of "A Master Plan for Free Highway Development" was its first description of what would become the Interstate System. Based on the survey data, the BPR explained that the primary justification for the network was passenger traffic, particularly congested city traffic, not interstate trucking. In fact, the report made little reference to trucks. [0] Commercial trucking would not start to take foothold over rail until the 1960s, primarily under President Johnson. [0]: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/freight.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/freight.cfm
- gresrun 4y ago
  It was also built to allow the U.S. Army to rapidly move convoys of trucks, tanks, & materiel around the U.S.[0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Aid_Highway_Act_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Aid_Highway_Act_of_195...
  - dimitrios1 4y ago
    And also built to allow rapid evacuation of large cities in case of nuclear attack. I think it's lost on a lot of people today just how many things we did in the 50s, 60s, and 70s because we were scared of being bombed.
causality0 4y ago
Trucks suck. Even with the US' road-friendly policies, transporting goods via truck is twelve times as expensive as by rail.
- eru 4y ago
  Why do (some) profit seeking companies use trucks then?
  - adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
    because the massive subsidies on trucking can make them sometimes convenient enough to be worth it.
    - eru 4y ago
      Oh, so what kind of expense are you talking about? Which costs do you want to include? Obviously you are not talking about the market price?
      - suoduandao2 4y ago
        Presumably the cost of road maintenance and the healthcare costs of the additional pollution - that's what I've seen brought up elsewhere when this subject was discussed at least.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  I'm not sure we are comparing apples to apples here. How much it cost to transfer let's say one container worth of stuff per week to place that doesn't yet have rail? On scale rai is cheaper, but less you use the infra and less you transport at one time more expensive it will get.
cycomanic 4y ago
Freight is far easier to transport using rail. However, the massive subsidies that road freight receives over other means of transport (i.e. the use of the road infrastructure basically for free, as they don't pay for maintance according to the damage they cause) makes rail financially unattractive in many cases.
- rtpg 4y ago
  I don't get where "easier to transport via rail" comes from. The instant you have a post office, you do want some sort of roads, and the number of rails and switching you would need to get to even some of the distribution centers spread across various supermarkets is a big ask! That doesn't mean every single last meter needs to happen via truck (lots of deliveries in urban areas can happen via foot or scooter) but ... at one point you need to get the 200 cartons of milk to the supermarket.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    No one is saying “replace roads with rails”, they’re saying ship more things by rail up to the last mile (e.g., trucks take goods from rail depot to local markets). Today, much freight is shipped on highways.
williamscales 4y ago
No, not at all. There's just no need whatsoever for trucks. We could simply use rail. The idea that folks on bicycles should be subject to gigantic, badly designed commercial vehicles while going about their business is absurd and a product of decades upon decades of lobbying.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  That only works if you've got rail.
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  The one thing trucks have that rail doesn't: flexibility. You need to lay a lot of track - and have lots of small trains, often only pulling a single container, to get to even approach the same flexibility trucks have, in speed, in location, and in routing. Sure, Just In Time is partly to blame for this. But if your stock intake deliveries now become a monthly event, you need to build a warehouse that holds about six weeks worth of raw material. That's cost. And unless these folks on bicycles delved for and forged the metal for the bikes themselves, assembled the self-made parts and walked all the way to the Caribbean to get the tree juice for rubber tyres, chances are, a truck brought the bikes to them.
- PeterisP 4y ago
  You don't have (and IMHO can't have) rail directly to all the businesses and retail warehouses that currently receive deliveries in semis, so that's adding a significant expensive extra loading/unloading step for large trucks which you still need between a rail station and a distribution center before the 'last mile'.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  The trucks that endanger cyclists aren’t going anywhere. They’re absolutely necessary to get goods from rail depots to markets so (among others) our dear cyclists can purchase them.
  - kiliantics 4y ago
    It's possible to restrict vehicle size in urban centres, plenty of cities do. You can move things with smaller safer trucks and vans for the last mile. In some cases, this is even done with cargo bikes.

by dahdum 4y ago

dimitrios1 4y ago

The interstate highway system was not built for commercial trucking. > In the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1938, Congress asked the BPR for a report on "the feasibility of building, and cost of, superhighways... including the feasibility of a toll system on such roads." The BPR based its report on data collected from extensive highway planning surveys that had been conducted around the country beginning in 1935. The origin-and-destination surveys showed that transcontinental traffic was limited, with traffic heaviest around cities and in interregional movements. Given the low income of most motorists, toll roads would have a traffic-repelling character. As a result, most routes would not carry enough traffic to generate sufficient revenue to pay off bonds needed to finance their construction. Instead, the BPR recommended construction of a network of toll-free express highways. The BPR's description of "A Master Plan for Free Highway Development" was its first description of what would become the Interstate System. Based on the survey data, the BPR explained that the primary justification for the network was passenger traffic, particularly congested city traffic, not interstate trucking. In fact, the report made little reference to trucks. [0] Commercial trucking would not start to take foothold over rail until the 1960s, primarily under President Johnson. [0]: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/freight.cfm https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/freight.cfm

gresrun 4y ago
It was also built to allow the U.S. Army to rapidly move convoys of trucks, tanks, & materiel around the U.S.[0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Aid_Highway_Act_of_1956 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal-Aid_Highway_Act_of_195...
- dimitrios1 4y ago
  And also built to allow rapid evacuation of large cities in case of nuclear attack. I think it's lost on a lot of people today just how many things we did in the 50s, 60s, and 70s because we were scared of being bombed.

causality0 4y ago

Trucks suck. Even with the US' road-friendly policies, transporting goods via truck is twelve times as expensive as by rail.

eru 4y ago
Why do (some) profit seeking companies use trucks then?
- adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
  because the massive subsidies on trucking can make them sometimes convenient enough to be worth it.
  - eru 4y ago
    Oh, so what kind of expense are you talking about? Which costs do you want to include? Obviously you are not talking about the market price?
    - suoduandao2 4y ago
      Presumably the cost of road maintenance and the healthcare costs of the additional pollution - that's what I've seen brought up elsewhere when this subject was discussed at least.
Ekaros 4y ago
I'm not sure we are comparing apples to apples here. How much it cost to transfer let's say one container worth of stuff per week to place that doesn't yet have rail? On scale rai is cheaper, but less you use the infra and less you transport at one time more expensive it will get.

cycomanic 4y ago

Freight is far easier to transport using rail. However, the massive subsidies that road freight receives over other means of transport (i.e. the use of the road infrastructure basically for free, as they don't pay for maintance according to the damage they cause) makes rail financially unattractive in many cases.

rtpg 4y ago
I don't get where "easier to transport via rail" comes from. The instant you have a post office, you do want some sort of roads, and the number of rails and switching you would need to get to even some of the distribution centers spread across various supermarkets is a big ask! That doesn't mean every single last meter needs to happen via truck (lots of deliveries in urban areas can happen via foot or scooter) but ... at one point you need to get the 200 cartons of milk to the supermarket.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  No one is saying “replace roads with rails”, they’re saying ship more things by rail up to the last mile (e.g., trucks take goods from rail depot to local markets). Today, much freight is shipped on highways.

williamscales 4y ago

No, not at all. There's just no need whatsoever for trucks. We could simply use rail. The idea that folks on bicycles should be subject to gigantic, badly designed commercial vehicles while going about their business is absurd and a product of decades upon decades of lobbying.

Gordonjcp 4y ago
That only works if you've got rail.
DocTomoe 4y ago
The one thing trucks have that rail doesn't: flexibility. You need to lay a lot of track - and have lots of small trains, often only pulling a single container, to get to even approach the same flexibility trucks have, in speed, in location, and in routing. Sure, Just In Time is partly to blame for this. But if your stock intake deliveries now become a monthly event, you need to build a warehouse that holds about six weeks worth of raw material. That's cost. And unless these folks on bicycles delved for and forged the metal for the bikes themselves, assembled the self-made parts and walked all the way to the Caribbean to get the tree juice for rubber tyres, chances are, a truck brought the bikes to them.
PeterisP 4y ago
You don't have (and IMHO can't have) rail directly to all the businesses and retail warehouses that currently receive deliveries in semis, so that's adding a significant expensive extra loading/unloading step for large trucks which you still need between a rail station and a distribution center before the 'last mile'.
throwaway894345 4y ago
The trucks that endanger cyclists aren’t going anywhere. They’re absolutely necessary to get goods from rail depots to markets so (among others) our dear cyclists can purchase them.
- kiliantics 4y ago
  It's possible to restrict vehicle size in urban centres, plenty of cities do. You can move things with smaller safer trucks and vans for the last mile. In some cases, this is even done with cargo bikes.