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> More than 100 million pounds of plastic from industrial fishing gear pollute the oceans each year—threatening marine life ... does the actual fishing itself

> More than 100 million pounds of plastic from industrial fishing gear pollute the oceans each year—threatening marine life ... does the actual fishing itself not ultimately also threaten said marine life?

colechristensen 4y ago
Fishing can be done sustainably, and is in some fisheries.
- dmbche 4y ago
  That's definitely a claim but I assure you no human being has a clue of how to manage the ocean - it's kind of ludicrous. And by the fact that the ocean is so large, it industrial fishing is notoriously impossible to regulate - meaning that even if you "fish sustainably", it doesn't really matter - a large part of the market remains and will remain unregulated, by nature.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    That’s a bit excessive. No human knows how to manage fish populations?
    - steve_adams_86 4y ago
      We aren’t managing to do it yet. Even here in Beautiful British Columbia, Canada, we are doing an abysmal job and constantly shifting goal posts to claim we’re succeeding. I used to believe it until I began reading salmon reports and various population studies for species like rockfish and lingcod, key commercial species. Our definition of sustainable is essentially “not completely shitting the bed”. We’re supposed to be a model of sustainability. I don’t have much faith. We’re also talking about sustaining populations that have already been decimated in the last 150 years. Let’s not pretend the numbers we’re trying to hit resemble anything like healthy. It’s an incredible disservice to ourselves and future generations to pretend industry standards for sustainability are anything more than an excuse to squeeze more juice out of a dried up fruit.
    - PeterisP 4y ago
      No human knows how to solve global coordination, i.e. if some countries switch to be sustainable and some others don't, the former pay the costs, but the latter gain a signficant benefit as their immediate catches simply increase (as fish don't care about borders). We don't have a "world government" that can practically impose binding restrictions on anyone in cases that don't go so far as where military violence makes sense.
      - colechristensen 4y ago
        >fish don't care about borders Plenty of fisheries are indeed quite local, and managed responsibly. Likewise some aren't.
- s_dev 4y ago
  Unless it's some guy with a fishing rod or anchovies -- no industrial fishing is not sustainable. Even salmon farms are fed with 20x the mass of smaller wild fish from the ocean. I love eating fish but this is a fact we all have to face.
  - cmos 4y ago
    It is indeed a fact we have to face, and the best way to do it is to stop eating fish, if you have the luxury to be able to do that and other foods are available.
    - ornornor 4y ago
      It’s not a luxury in terms of money, for the developed world. Fish is much more expensive than vegetables, soy, and other proteins. Availability is an issue in poorer locales, but unless you’re a fisherman yourself fish is also quite expensive.
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    >Even salmon farms are fed with 20x the mass of smaller wild fish from the ocean. The feed ratio for farmed salmon isn't 20, it's 1.2. 12 pounds of feed for 10 pounds of salmon. The ratio is about 6 for beef, 4 for pork, 1.6 for poultry. People who don't know things or make up statistics to support their environmental doom narrative do harm to the causes they are trying to help. Anyone skeptical of you can easily find your numbers are false, and very very false at that. Why would anybody believe any of the rest of what you have to say when clearly it's demonstrable that you don't know what you're talking about on an easily countered point.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

colechristensen 4y ago

Fishing can be done sustainably, and is in some fisheries.

dmbche 4y ago
That's definitely a claim but I assure you no human being has a clue of how to manage the ocean - it's kind of ludicrous. And by the fact that the ocean is so large, it industrial fishing is notoriously impossible to regulate - meaning that even if you "fish sustainably", it doesn't really matter - a large part of the market remains and will remain unregulated, by nature.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  That’s a bit excessive. No human knows how to manage fish populations?
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    We aren’t managing to do it yet. Even here in Beautiful British Columbia, Canada, we are doing an abysmal job and constantly shifting goal posts to claim we’re succeeding. I used to believe it until I began reading salmon reports and various population studies for species like rockfish and lingcod, key commercial species. Our definition of sustainable is essentially “not completely shitting the bed”. We’re supposed to be a model of sustainability. I don’t have much faith. We’re also talking about sustaining populations that have already been decimated in the last 150 years. Let’s not pretend the numbers we’re trying to hit resemble anything like healthy. It’s an incredible disservice to ourselves and future generations to pretend industry standards for sustainability are anything more than an excuse to squeeze more juice out of a dried up fruit.
  - PeterisP 4y ago
    No human knows how to solve global coordination, i.e. if some countries switch to be sustainable and some others don't, the former pay the costs, but the latter gain a signficant benefit as their immediate catches simply increase (as fish don't care about borders). We don't have a "world government" that can practically impose binding restrictions on anyone in cases that don't go so far as where military violence makes sense.
    - colechristensen 4y ago
      >fish don't care about borders Plenty of fisheries are indeed quite local, and managed responsibly. Likewise some aren't.
s_dev 4y ago
Unless it's some guy with a fishing rod or anchovies -- no industrial fishing is not sustainable. Even salmon farms are fed with 20x the mass of smaller wild fish from the ocean. I love eating fish but this is a fact we all have to face.
- cmos 4y ago
  It is indeed a fact we have to face, and the best way to do it is to stop eating fish, if you have the luxury to be able to do that and other foods are available.
  - ornornor 4y ago
    It’s not a luxury in terms of money, for the developed world. Fish is much more expensive than vegetables, soy, and other proteins. Availability is an issue in poorer locales, but unless you’re a fisherman yourself fish is also quite expensive.
- colechristensen 4y ago
  >Even salmon farms are fed with 20x the mass of smaller wild fish from the ocean. The feed ratio for farmed salmon isn't 20, it's 1.2. 12 pounds of feed for 10 pounds of salmon. The ratio is about 6 for beef, 4 for pork, 1.6 for poultry. People who don't know things or make up statistics to support their environmental doom narrative do harm to the causes they are trying to help. Anyone skeptical of you can easily find your numbers are false, and very very false at that. Why would anybody believe any of the rest of what you have to say when clearly it's demonstrable that you don't know what you're talking about on an easily countered point.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]