5 ms·

> Sounds like we wouldn't want you anyways if you have such poor work ethic. Ouch. I knew I saw red flags in your original post. This seals the deal.

gsibble 4y ago
What red flags did you see? That we pay top of market? That we work to have a low stress environment? That we put life before work instead of work before life? That we prioritize having the best benefits on the market, including platinum health care with $0 employee contribution and full mental health coverage for therapy and medication not covered through insurance? That we don't overload our top performers by giving them more work when they overperform but instead let them take the extra time off? Which of those is a red flag? Everyone at our company is very happy. Apparently some people don't like coding exercises. That's fine. We require people to demonstrate they can code. Everyone at the company has to go through that. We'll miss out on some candidates because of that, but I'd much rather miss a few candidates than have some false positives. I'm sorry that ruffles some feathers. We honestly strive to have the best work environment possible for engineers based upon my many years of being abused, overworked, and having to go through absolutely horrible, long, miserable interview processes. We do 1-2 interviews and ask you to code a little. I don't think that's unreasonable, especially considering all of the benefits on the other side. All of these are policies I've worked hard to implement to create the absolute best environment in the world for my engineers to thrive. I've had to fight for them since they aren't cheap. It hurts me when someone says taking an hour out of their week to do a coding interview isn't worth it when I've taken dozens to hundreds out of mine to make their job as easy and enjoyable when they get accepted into our culture. It's insulting to me to say that asking for an hour of your time is not worth everything above and much more that I've strived for to make our company a fantastic place to work at. So, like I said, what red flags did you see exactly?
- yupper32 4y ago
  Those are a lot of words that could be empty. It's easy for me to see the red flags: 1. Mentioning firing in the very first post when talking about hiring. 2. Take home interview tests, showing you don't value your potential employee's time. 3. And this is an interesting one: accusing someone of having a poor work ethic when you don't know them and they didn't show any sign of it. This is a big red flag because it points to you equating disagreements with performance, which makes #1 even more of a red flag.
  - jenscow 4y ago
    To me, its the outright refusal to spend an hour doing something you claim to be adept at, because you've failed to understand the other person's problem despite it being explained multiple times. Maybe you just haven't hired or worked with someone who can't code yet. It's not the liars that are being filtered out (they're easy to detect), but its those who genuinely believe they are good developers.
    - gsibble 4y ago
      That's my thought too. I don't think this person has done much hiring so they don't understand the problem set. I haven't solved how to tell if someone can code without some kind of coding exercise. If I could, I wouldn't do it. I've at least gotten rid of l33tcode, 8 hour technical interviews, whiteboard BS, in-person high-pressure timed coding exercises, brain teasers, etc.. All the worst stuff. I thought that was good enough. Apparently asking for an hour of someone's time to get a great job is too much these days.
    - yupper32 4y ago
      Take home tests are never just an hour. They're open ended traps designed to find out who is willing to put in unpaid overtime. The OP themselves admitted to expanding the scope of a take home test they were given by around 10x because they felt it would give them an edge. This is what a ton of candidates end up doing, knowing that others are going to as well. Especially when the take home test could be sent to a massive number of people. Spend a few hours with me and watch me code. Show you care. I'm not rejecting the idea of spending time coding for an interview.
      - gsibble 4y ago
        I'm happy to sit down with you and watch you code if you'd prefer that. Most of our candidates prefer take homes. We're willing to work with our candidates to let them show their skills however they please. I'm not 100% for take homes, it's just the preference we've seen. And we never give take homes that are actual work, god forbid.
  - 4y ago

gsibble 4y ago

What red flags did you see? That we pay top of market? That we work to have a low stress environment? That we put life before work instead of work before life? That we prioritize having the best benefits on the market, including platinum health care with $0 employee contribution and full mental health coverage for therapy and medication not covered through insurance? That we don't overload our top performers by giving them more work when they overperform but instead let them take the extra time off? Which of those is a red flag? Everyone at our company is very happy. Apparently some people don't like coding exercises. That's fine. We require people to demonstrate they can code. Everyone at the company has to go through that. We'll miss out on some candidates because of that, but I'd much rather miss a few candidates than have some false positives. I'm sorry that ruffles some feathers. We honestly strive to have the best work environment possible for engineers based upon my many years of being abused, overworked, and having to go through absolutely horrible, long, miserable interview processes. We do 1-2 interviews and ask you to code a little. I don't think that's unreasonable, especially considering all of the benefits on the other side. All of these are policies I've worked hard to implement to create the absolute best environment in the world for my engineers to thrive. I've had to fight for them since they aren't cheap. It hurts me when someone says taking an hour out of their week to do a coding interview isn't worth it when I've taken dozens to hundreds out of mine to make their job as easy and enjoyable when they get accepted into our culture. It's insulting to me to say that asking for an hour of your time is not worth everything above and much more that I've strived for to make our company a fantastic place to work at. So, like I said, what red flags did you see exactly?

yupper32 4y ago
Those are a lot of words that could be empty. It's easy for me to see the red flags: 1. Mentioning firing in the very first post when talking about hiring. 2. Take home interview tests, showing you don't value your potential employee's time. 3. And this is an interesting one: accusing someone of having a poor work ethic when you don't know them and they didn't show any sign of it. This is a big red flag because it points to you equating disagreements with performance, which makes #1 even more of a red flag.
- jenscow 4y ago
  To me, its the outright refusal to spend an hour doing something you claim to be adept at, because you've failed to understand the other person's problem despite it being explained multiple times. Maybe you just haven't hired or worked with someone who can't code yet. It's not the liars that are being filtered out (they're easy to detect), but its those who genuinely believe they are good developers.
  - gsibble 4y ago
    That's my thought too. I don't think this person has done much hiring so they don't understand the problem set. I haven't solved how to tell if someone can code without some kind of coding exercise. If I could, I wouldn't do it. I've at least gotten rid of l33tcode, 8 hour technical interviews, whiteboard BS, in-person high-pressure timed coding exercises, brain teasers, etc.. All the worst stuff. I thought that was good enough. Apparently asking for an hour of someone's time to get a great job is too much these days.
  - yupper32 4y ago
    Take home tests are never just an hour. They're open ended traps designed to find out who is willing to put in unpaid overtime. The OP themselves admitted to expanding the scope of a take home test they were given by around 10x because they felt it would give them an edge. This is what a ton of candidates end up doing, knowing that others are going to as well. Especially when the take home test could be sent to a massive number of people. Spend a few hours with me and watch me code. Show you care. I'm not rejecting the idea of spending time coding for an interview.
    - gsibble 4y ago
      I'm happy to sit down with you and watch you code if you'd prefer that. Most of our candidates prefer take homes. We're willing to work with our candidates to let them show their skills however they please. I'm not 100% for take homes, it's just the preference we've seen. And we never give take homes that are actual work, god forbid.
- 4y ago