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And if a wealthy developer wants to buy up an apartment block in Harlem and tear it all down and replace it with a gated McMansion, why should anyone be able to

And if a wealthy developer wants to buy up an apartment block in Harlem and tear it all down and replace it with a gated McMansion, why should anyone be able to stop them? Or if your neighbor wants to rent out their house as a 24/7 rave and auto shop, why should anyone be able to stop them? At the fundamental level, this fight is about self determination how small does a cluster of people have to be before they’re not allowed to set the rules for the area they live in. Can a state ban a developer from turning a major thoroughfare into a replica of the Vegas strip if the citizens of that state don’t want it? Can a county? Can a city? Can a town? Can a neighborhood? Do people from outside an area have a fundamental right to impose laws on an area to make that area more palatable to their sensibilities? The obvious answer is in all of these cases, sometimes yes and sometimes no. But the fight is about where the lines are drawn. Why can’t a group of like minded people decide they want the area they live in to be exclusively single family homes on half acre lots? Why can’t a group of like minded people decide they want the area they live in to be exclusively high rises? Or exclusively low income housing? Or exclusively walkable? Or exclusively mixed use but only for local businesses and not multi state chains? What makes one persons later birth or lack of income more deserving of a home in a given area than the people who already live there? Or to put it another way, would it be unreasonable for the people in a rural French village to decry (and want to stop) the construction of a raft of new McMansions and some massive Wal-marts. And if it’s not unreasonable, what makes their desire to have their homes and neighborhoods a certain way more legitimate than anyone else’s? Just time?

awillen 4y ago
I think the answer is that they can decide all of the things that you're saying here, and they can lobby to have the government enforce those decisions, because people are allowed to do lobby the government to do whatever they want. The argument against NIMBYs isn't that they're doing something illegal, it's that they're doing something that's selfish and bad for society as a whole. The difference between wanting denser residential zoning and wanting to build McMansions on French villages is that one has clear benefits for large numbers of people and the other very much does not. And while we shouldn't always do the thing that benefits more people - that's how you end up with oppression of minorities - the fact that people are upset with those who are doing a thing that is inherently self-serving at the expense of others doesn't seems reasonable.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  > one has clear benefits for large numbers of people and the other very much does not. Why does it benefit large numbers of others to have denser housing right here where my house is though? There is plenty of room in the world to build denser housing for them elsewhere, while I can still have what I want. Win-Win > the fact that people are upset with those who are doing a thing that is inherently self-serving at the expense of others doesn't seems reasonable. What expense of others? Go live somewhere else. There are plenty of dense housing options that aren't here where my house is.
  - awillen 4y ago
    > Why does it benefit large numbers of others to have denser housing right here where my house is though? It benefits large numbers of others to have denser housing in any highly populated area, particularly those that are desirable. If your house is in an area that can be described that way, then that's the reason it benefits large numbers of others to build denser housing right where your house is. The problem is, obviously, when everyone adopts the same attitude you have. Then there's no "somewhere else" to build. And hey, just like you're absolutely allowed to try to get the government to keep your area zoned as it is, others can try to get the government to loosen zoning. You don't have to like it, but they're doing the exact same thing you are - using the same processes to achieve something that's favorable to them.

awillen 4y ago

I think the answer is that they can decide all of the things that you're saying here, and they can lobby to have the government enforce those decisions, because people are allowed to do lobby the government to do whatever they want. The argument against NIMBYs isn't that they're doing something illegal, it's that they're doing something that's selfish and bad for society as a whole. The difference between wanting denser residential zoning and wanting to build McMansions on French villages is that one has clear benefits for large numbers of people and the other very much does not. And while we shouldn't always do the thing that benefits more people - that's how you end up with oppression of minorities - the fact that people are upset with those who are doing a thing that is inherently self-serving at the expense of others doesn't seems reasonable.

bluefirebrand 4y ago
> one has clear benefits for large numbers of people and the other very much does not. Why does it benefit large numbers of others to have denser housing right here where my house is though? There is plenty of room in the world to build denser housing for them elsewhere, while I can still have what I want. Win-Win > the fact that people are upset with those who are doing a thing that is inherently self-serving at the expense of others doesn't seems reasonable. What expense of others? Go live somewhere else. There are plenty of dense housing options that aren't here where my house is.
- awillen 4y ago
  > Why does it benefit large numbers of others to have denser housing right here where my house is though? It benefits large numbers of others to have denser housing in any highly populated area, particularly those that are desirable. If your house is in an area that can be described that way, then that's the reason it benefits large numbers of others to build denser housing right where your house is. The problem is, obviously, when everyone adopts the same attitude you have. Then there's no "somewhere else" to build. And hey, just like you're absolutely allowed to try to get the government to keep your area zoned as it is, others can try to get the government to loosen zoning. You don't have to like it, but they're doing the exact same thing you are - using the same processes to achieve something that's favorable to them.