4 ms·

There are starch-based "plastic" utensils that look/feel like a slightly more matte version of the plastic most people are used to. The school my partner works

by ksaj 4y ago

There are starch-based "plastic" utensils that look/feel like a slightly more matte version of the plastic most people are used to. The school my partner works at used them as a trial for a year. They had straws, spoons, forks, knives and plates made from it. The problem is they are more expensive than regular plastic or paper/cardboard, and people in general seem to be unwilling to pay that bit extra to keep non-biodegradable waste down. So everyone ends up with paper-based straws, etc, or sticking with plastics instead. In this case, they literally get what they pay for, because after the trial, they're complaining about all the paper products instead of budgeting to continue with the starch-based solution that was so very much better.

01100011 4y ago
I wonder how they break down outside of a compost environment? My company uses "compostable" plastics which feel like normal plastic. I've used the same compostable clear plastic cup for months on end and it isn't showing any signs of degradation. I suspect it would break down in a proper compost pile(high temps and such) but outside of that environment it seems as durable as traditional plastic. Hopefully in an environment like the ocean it would be susceptible to bacteria and fungi but I wonder if that is sufficient.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  Our local composting company explicitly excludes compostable utensils and food containers. Compostable doesn't mean biodegradable. For example, compostable cardboard food containers may be coated with perfluoro compounds to prevent liquids from soaking into the cardboard. These don't biodegrade.
  - ksaj 4y ago
    Yes, that also goes for paper cups with the wax coating. They don't biodegrade and they aren't recyclable because of the wax. That's probably the same coating you mention. It seems that this solution just replaces one problematic material with another when it coats something that would otherwise be biodegradable.
  - gbear605 4y ago
    Hm, that’s strange since they break down fine in my home compost bin. I wonder what’s the difference for them?
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      They may look like their breaking down, but your compost is now laced with PFAs. Forever chemicals for you!
      - ksaj 4y ago
        Yes, lots of "biodegradable" products do have PFAs. Including most of the paper straws that are supposedly better than plastic ones. That's a result of corporate lobbying right there. The point of the products I mentioned is that they don't contain PFAs. They are starch and cellulose. Cellulose just so happens to look and behave an awful lot like plastic. If you've ever seen those novelty see-through rolling papers, they're the same thing but without the starch. You're not smoking PFAs with them. The process is expensive. It's hard to convince people the extra costs are actually worth it in the end. Hopefully they keep working on the products and discover some manufacturing efficiencies. But it is like competing real fruit beverages against big-name colas - it's a tough battle to win.
- ksaj 4y ago
  My understanding is that they are starch and cellulose, so I'd expect them to eventually completely degrade like any other plant material. I'm not an expert, but that seems to be the point of products made with it. Our liquor store (LCBO) used to have bags made from the same stuff. When our provincial premiere got everyone to charge 5c for each plastic bag, they just stopped using it entirely and went to paper bags. I liked those original compostable/recyclable ones because they were less stretchy and therefore less likely to break than normal plastic grocery bags, and way easier to carry because of the handles. But the same reasoning applied - it was more expensive than paper bags, so that's all they use there now, too.
- adrianN 4y ago
  I've been using a wooden desk for decades and it's not showing any signs of degradation either, yet wood waste is not an environmental problem. Compostable plastics degrade very slowly compared to other compostable materials. Your normal garden compost heap probably doesn't break them down in a year. But they do decompose much faster than normal plastic, they don't stick around in the environment for millennia.
  - ksaj 4y ago
    A well protected / maintained desk versus the usual stuff thrown into a rotting heap of other delicious-to-bugs and vulnerable-to-water items isn't a realistic comparison, so I don't get the gyst of this response. Besides, I was talking about a set of products that are made from starch and cellulose. They'll break down real fast with the rest of the compost. Faster than your desk that also would degrade and get eaten up under those same conditions.

by ksaj 4y ago

01100011 4y ago

I wonder how they break down outside of a compost environment? My company uses "compostable" plastics which feel like normal plastic. I've used the same compostable clear plastic cup for months on end and it isn't showing any signs of degradation. I suspect it would break down in a proper compost pile(high temps and such) but outside of that environment it seems as durable as traditional plastic. Hopefully in an environment like the ocean it would be susceptible to bacteria and fungi but I wonder if that is sufficient.

pfdietz 4y ago
Our local composting company explicitly excludes compostable utensils and food containers. Compostable doesn't mean biodegradable. For example, compostable cardboard food containers may be coated with perfluoro compounds to prevent liquids from soaking into the cardboard. These don't biodegrade.
- ksaj 4y ago
  Yes, that also goes for paper cups with the wax coating. They don't biodegrade and they aren't recyclable because of the wax. That's probably the same coating you mention. It seems that this solution just replaces one problematic material with another when it coats something that would otherwise be biodegradable.
- gbear605 4y ago
  Hm, that’s strange since they break down fine in my home compost bin. I wonder what’s the difference for them?
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    They may look like their breaking down, but your compost is now laced with PFAs. Forever chemicals for you!
    - ksaj 4y ago
      Yes, lots of "biodegradable" products do have PFAs. Including most of the paper straws that are supposedly better than plastic ones. That's a result of corporate lobbying right there. The point of the products I mentioned is that they don't contain PFAs. They are starch and cellulose. Cellulose just so happens to look and behave an awful lot like plastic. If you've ever seen those novelty see-through rolling papers, they're the same thing but without the starch. You're not smoking PFAs with them. The process is expensive. It's hard to convince people the extra costs are actually worth it in the end. Hopefully they keep working on the products and discover some manufacturing efficiencies. But it is like competing real fruit beverages against big-name colas - it's a tough battle to win.
ksaj 4y ago
My understanding is that they are starch and cellulose, so I'd expect them to eventually completely degrade like any other plant material. I'm not an expert, but that seems to be the point of products made with it. Our liquor store (LCBO) used to have bags made from the same stuff. When our provincial premiere got everyone to charge 5c for each plastic bag, they just stopped using it entirely and went to paper bags. I liked those original compostable/recyclable ones because they were less stretchy and therefore less likely to break than normal plastic grocery bags, and way easier to carry because of the handles. But the same reasoning applied - it was more expensive than paper bags, so that's all they use there now, too.
adrianN 4y ago
I've been using a wooden desk for decades and it's not showing any signs of degradation either, yet wood waste is not an environmental problem. Compostable plastics degrade very slowly compared to other compostable materials. Your normal garden compost heap probably doesn't break them down in a year. But they do decompose much faster than normal plastic, they don't stick around in the environment for millennia.
- ksaj 4y ago
  A well protected / maintained desk versus the usual stuff thrown into a rotting heap of other delicious-to-bugs and vulnerable-to-water items isn't a realistic comparison, so I don't get the gyst of this response. Besides, I was talking about a set of products that are made from starch and cellulose. They'll break down real fast with the rest of the compost. Faster than your desk that also would degrade and get eaten up under those same conditions.