8 ms·

Ok. What would you suggest instead? I need to know you can, you know, actually code.

by gsibble 4y ago

sys_64738 4y ago
I know that code and that’s what the resume says.
pjmlp 4y ago
Ask about project work, and real technical questions. Many of us have a real life, and enough offers to chose from.
- gsibble 4y ago
  Sorry, but neither of those things show me that you know how to code. I don't know how long it took you to write your projects so you may be very slow and a terrible coder. Technical questions you may have prepped from a book. I need to see active coding, either live, in person, over zoom, or time boxed in a take home. We'll even compensate you for your time. But I need to see you actually working and review your work. Sorry. Quite frankly, relying upon such things is a sure-fire way to make sure some bad developers get through the cracks.
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    No need to be sorry, I wouldn't apply to your company, and you would be lucky to even get a reply from me if contacting me on the typical social networks for developers. Sorry.
    - gsibble 4y ago
      No worries. Sounds like we wouldn't want you anyways if you have such poor work ethic.
      - pjmlp 4y ago
        There are plenty of fish in the sea....
        sys_64738 4y ago
        Tell us who you are and what your company is. You truly sound like a terrible employer based on your shocking responses. You came here to ask for feedback and then when you got it you didn't like it. You are clearly the issue of why you can't hire developers. I'd wish you good luck but I won't.
        gsibble 4y ago
        We're a terrible employer? Let me tell you what kind of employer we are. We pay top 1% of market. We work to have a low stress environment. We put life before work instead of work before life. We prioritize having the best benefits on the market, including platinum health care with $0 employee contribution and full mental health coverage for therapy and medication not covered through insurance. We don't overload our top performers by giving them more work when they overperform but instead let them take the extra time off. We give everyone when they join a private office and an unlimited budget to buy tech and decorate it to their heart's desire. We don't have required hours in the office or even require that people come to the office at all. Most people do though since they enjoy their nicely decorated private offices with multiple high end monitors and tricked out desktops. Which part of that makes us a terrible employer? That we ask people for an hour of their time to do a coding exercise? Is that how your judge if an employer is good or bad?
        techdragon 4y ago
        I could have missed it since I’m reading on my phone before my morning coffee, but you don’t appear to have stated where you work. I’m curious where it is since if you would employ someone remote from overseas you sound like a great “no bullshit” employer/company!
        4y ago
WkndTriathlete 4y ago
Talk to the candidate. If you (and the candidate) cannot communicate well enough in 30 minutes to discover that then either (a) you don't know enough to work well with a really good developer or (b) the developer doesn't know enough to work with you or (c) both are true. I have never been let down by this rule, either as a candidate or an interviewer. In my experience coding exercises as part of an interview process are a big red flag to me indicating the company is trying to compensate for lack of in-house talent with process or they are trying to replace someone with a certain hard-to-find skillset because they have an immediate fire they are trying to put out. Neither situation is a good one to get into.
- gsibble 4y ago
  Trust me when I say I've talked to plenty of candidates who I thought were great only to learn they couldn't actually code fizzbuzz. Talking to candidates doesn't work.
  - sys_64738 4y ago
    You want programmers to do tricks and silly initiation dances which is your whole problem. If you actually asked real questions about their experience then you’d get a good grounding. I might do silly problems for a high profile employer but that’s likely not you. In which case if I tell you to stop wasting my time and walk out of your attempted initiation ritual then you won’t like it.
    - gsibble 4y ago
      No worries.
      - sys_64738 4y ago
        Your tone speaks dividends about how you view programmers. Often when you ask why something is hard then you’re the problem, not them. Edit: FYI. The OP changed their initial reply from the condescending combative response to that below.
NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
My favorite because of how realistic it is, is have me/the candidate do a code review. It's a real world thing that will be a part of most jobs that doesn't require artificial nonsense like coding in a browser, memorizable hacker rank crap, or some throw away time wasting coding challenge. As for if I can code, I have seven public github repos, 3 of which are previous take home challenges of varying degrees of absurdity.
- gsibble 4y ago
  I said this elsewhere but reviewing previous projects or doing a code review does help somewhat, but it leaves out my ability to see your actual coding skill re: speed. I need to get a sense of that in order to feel comfortable hiring you. The only way I can do that is if you do some live coding one way or another. How you do it at our company is entirely up to you. With our salaries, we have yet to have anyone turn us down when we get to that stage of the interview, but maybe someday it'll happen.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
akvadrako 4y ago
Paid take home assignments are the best in my experience.
- gsibble 4y ago
  If someone asks for it, we pay for their time. And we offer to get a sense of how they can code however they want. Take home, virtual pair coding, in-officce pair coding or coding exercises, whatever you want. We just need to see you code in a timeboxed way so we can see how you solve problems and see the results to make sure you write readable, maintainable code. Almost everyone picks take home. Like, over 95%. I'm not sure why people here are complaining about it except that the accounts that are were made 2021+ so maybe it's a generational thing.

Ok. What would you suggest instead? I need to know you can, you know, actually code.

sys_64738 4y ago

I know that code and that’s what the resume says.

pjmlp 4y ago

Ask about project work, and real technical questions. Many of us have a real life, and enough offers to chose from.

gsibble 4y ago
Sorry, but neither of those things show me that you know how to code. I don't know how long it took you to write your projects so you may be very slow and a terrible coder. Technical questions you may have prepped from a book. I need to see active coding, either live, in person, over zoom, or time boxed in a take home. We'll even compensate you for your time. But I need to see you actually working and review your work. Sorry. Quite frankly, relying upon such things is a sure-fire way to make sure some bad developers get through the cracks.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  No need to be sorry, I wouldn't apply to your company, and you would be lucky to even get a reply from me if contacting me on the typical social networks for developers. Sorry.
  - gsibble 4y ago
    No worries. Sounds like we wouldn't want you anyways if you have such poor work ethic.
    - pjmlp 4y ago
      There are plenty of fish in the sea....
      - sys_64738 4y ago
        Tell us who you are and what your company is. You truly sound like a terrible employer based on your shocking responses. You came here to ask for feedback and then when you got it you didn't like it. You are clearly the issue of why you can't hire developers. I'd wish you good luck but I won't.
        gsibble 4y ago
        We're a terrible employer? Let me tell you what kind of employer we are. We pay top 1% of market. We work to have a low stress environment. We put life before work instead of work before life. We prioritize having the best benefits on the market, including platinum health care with $0 employee contribution and full mental health coverage for therapy and medication not covered through insurance. We don't overload our top performers by giving them more work when they overperform but instead let them take the extra time off. We give everyone when they join a private office and an unlimited budget to buy tech and decorate it to their heart's desire. We don't have required hours in the office or even require that people come to the office at all. Most people do though since they enjoy their nicely decorated private offices with multiple high end monitors and tricked out desktops. Which part of that makes us a terrible employer? That we ask people for an hour of their time to do a coding exercise? Is that how your judge if an employer is good or bad?
        techdragon 4y ago
        I could have missed it since I’m reading on my phone before my morning coffee, but you don’t appear to have stated where you work. I’m curious where it is since if you would employ someone remote from overseas you sound like a great “no bullshit” employer/company!
        4y ago

WkndTriathlete 4y ago

Talk to the candidate. If you (and the candidate) cannot communicate well enough in 30 minutes to discover that then either (a) you don't know enough to work well with a really good developer or (b) the developer doesn't know enough to work with you or (c) both are true. I have never been let down by this rule, either as a candidate or an interviewer. In my experience coding exercises as part of an interview process are a big red flag to me indicating the company is trying to compensate for lack of in-house talent with process or they are trying to replace someone with a certain hard-to-find skillset because they have an immediate fire they are trying to put out. Neither situation is a good one to get into.

gsibble 4y ago
Trust me when I say I've talked to plenty of candidates who I thought were great only to learn they couldn't actually code fizzbuzz. Talking to candidates doesn't work.
- sys_64738 4y ago
  You want programmers to do tricks and silly initiation dances which is your whole problem. If you actually asked real questions about their experience then you’d get a good grounding. I might do silly problems for a high profile employer but that’s likely not you. In which case if I tell you to stop wasting my time and walk out of your attempted initiation ritual then you won’t like it.
  - gsibble 4y ago
    No worries.
    - sys_64738 4y ago
      Your tone speaks dividends about how you view programmers. Often when you ask why something is hard then you’re the problem, not them. Edit: FYI. The OP changed their initial reply from the condescending combative response to that below.

NaturalPhallacy 4y ago

My favorite because of how realistic it is, is have me/the candidate do a code review. It's a real world thing that will be a part of most jobs that doesn't require artificial nonsense like coding in a browser, memorizable hacker rank crap, or some throw away time wasting coding challenge. As for if I can code, I have seven public github repos, 3 of which are previous take home challenges of varying degrees of absurdity.

gsibble 4y ago
I said this elsewhere but reviewing previous projects or doing a code review does help somewhat, but it leaves out my ability to see your actual coding skill re: speed. I need to get a sense of that in order to feel comfortable hiring you. The only way I can do that is if you do some live coding one way or another. How you do it at our company is entirely up to you. With our salaries, we have yet to have anyone turn us down when we get to that stage of the interview, but maybe someday it'll happen.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

akvadrako 4y ago

Paid take home assignments are the best in my experience.

gsibble 4y ago
If someone asks for it, we pay for their time. And we offer to get a sense of how they can code however they want. Take home, virtual pair coding, in-officce pair coding or coding exercises, whatever you want. We just need to see you code in a timeboxed way so we can see how you solve problems and see the results to make sure you write readable, maintainable code. Almost everyone picks take home. Like, over 95%. I'm not sure why people here are complaining about it except that the accounts that are were made 2021+ so maybe it's a generational thing.