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> What happens to the FOSS developers who contributed to the project? Are they sanctioned as well? devs were mostly anonymous, IIRC. Coindesk says “Tornado Cas

> What happens to the FOSS developers who contributed to the project? Are they sanctioned as well? devs were mostly anonymous, IIRC. Coindesk says “Tornado Cash developer Roman Semenov's GitHub was suspended.” [1] > What will happen to the tainted money? This figure is about 400M$. I expect a secondary market for TCtETH (Tornado cash tainted ETH) indeed. the feds haven’t seized any money. the 10,000s of TC users still have anonymized possession of decent sums of money and have effectively been told “you can’t legally use this for goods and services”. have the feds just created a bunch of $1000 coupons for DNMs? > What happens to the protocols/pools/(d)apps which interacted with it? contract still live, i assume. i think it was governed by a DAO so if they haven’t/don’t hurry up and lock that down there’s risk of a malicious takeover as the TORN token devalues. if you blacklisted everything that these tokens interact with you'd blacklist like 10% of crypto. AMMs and bridges are in some sense just a much more diffuse tumbling service. i guess it works for now because most people running Ren nodes (for example) don't understand that they're helping people launder, whereas the TC service is much more in-your-face. Tornado Cash published their UI a month ago. their GitHub’s been taken down but i expect mirrors will surface. it should be totally possible to keep using the service — expect significantly decreased liquidity — and the fun part (for me) will be to sit and watch to what degree the decreased normie use of TC kills the thing v.s. just slows it down. the GitHub ban is a warning to me though. i’m in (non-crypto) circles where we largely host our own repos, but few of us publicly mirror the software we build upon. makes me think i should start doing so in advance. [1]: https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/08/08/crypto-mixing-service-tornado-cash-blacklisted-by-us-treasury/ https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/08/08/crypto-mixing-ser...

chrisco255 4y ago
> contract still live, i assume. i think it was governed by a DAO so if they haven’t/don’t hurry up and lock that down Most smart contracts are deployed in such a way as to be immutable. They can also be cloned trivially. The source has already been backed up to IPFS. They might as well ban elliptic curves. Also, someone already used TC to send 0.1ETH to dozens of celebs such as Jimmy Fallon and Dave Chappelle, because crypto works like email. You can't prevent someone from sending something and you can't prove it was or wasn't them that initiated it.
- amluto 4y ago
  But you can refuse to allow those tainted ETH to be exchanged for anything off the Ethereum blockchain.
  - chrisco255 4y ago
    If I send you 0.1 ETH and your wallet already had 8.76 ETH then you engage in 100 transactions and trades and in the process you zero out the account a few times and you refund the account a few times. Which 0.1 ETH is sanctioned? At which address? When it was swapped in a Uniswap liquidity pool for a defi token which was provided as collateral on Aave then borrowed against in RAI only to be swapped for NFTs that were flipped for a profit and distributed to 27 different addresses?
    - spinny 4y ago
      I believe that the most used is the FIFO method (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1906.05754.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1906.05754.pdf)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
carlosdp 4y ago
> contract still live, i assume. i think it was governed by a DAO Just chiming in to make it clear that the protocols that have to do with the core service are not governed by a DAO and are fully immutable. Nobody can change or shutdown those smart contracts without the blockchain itself manipulating things, which is for all intents and purposes impossible.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> have effectively been told “you can’t legally use this for goods and services” No, they haven’t. When the Russian central bank was sanctioned, everyone who’s done business with them didn’t lose the dollars they were paid. They’re under more scrutiny, when they spend any of their dollars, because they were proximate to a sanctioned entity. But the funds are still theirs.
- Bedon292 4y ago
  Some users still have their funds inside the Tornado ecosystem. Its more like having your money in a bank account in Russia and you no longer have a legal way to get that money back to the US.
FpUser 4y ago
>"the GitHub ban is a warning to me though. i’m in (non-crypto) circles where we largely host our own repos" I am a small fish that develops software products for clients and for my own company. The chances of me being punished by Github are probably close to 0 since I do not do anything even remotely related to money, politics and other "hot and exiting" areas. Still unless explicitly requested by client I always host my own stuff either on my premises or on rented dedicated servers from OVH and Hetzner. The whole idea of someone else controlling my assets drives me up the wall and I am trying to avoid it as much as reasonably possible.
- frozencell 4y ago
  Do you use OVH because it hosts(Ed) Wikileaks?
  - FpUser 4y ago
    Is it supposed to be sarcasm? I do not give a flying fuck what they host. They provide great hardware at reasonable prices. All I care about.
    - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
      They are pointing out that your assets are controlled by OVH and Hetzner, and wondering why you deem that more acceptable than GitHub.
      - FpUser 4y ago
        It is a rather longish explanation so I'll skip it as I am in no mood for such task. But it is my belief that they do not have level of control and influence that is anywhere close to Github. Especially when it comes to source code.
      - tsimionescu 4y ago
        For one, OVH and Hetzner can't legally mine your work to sell a code writing assistant software that may reproduce it in hole or in part.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
whoami_nr 4y ago
Do bear in mind that its riskier to use the mirrors. Without sufficient liquidity, it easy to track deposits and withdrawals.
- miracle2k 4y ago
  The mirrors refer to the interface. They interact with the same smart contracts and all share liquidity.

chrisco255 4y ago

> contract still live, i assume. i think it was governed by a DAO so if they haven’t/don’t hurry up and lock that down Most smart contracts are deployed in such a way as to be immutable. They can also be cloned trivially. The source has already been backed up to IPFS. They might as well ban elliptic curves. Also, someone already used TC to send 0.1ETH to dozens of celebs such as Jimmy Fallon and Dave Chappelle, because crypto works like email. You can't prevent someone from sending something and you can't prove it was or wasn't them that initiated it.

amluto 4y ago
But you can refuse to allow those tainted ETH to be exchanged for anything off the Ethereum blockchain.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  If I send you 0.1 ETH and your wallet already had 8.76 ETH then you engage in 100 transactions and trades and in the process you zero out the account a few times and you refund the account a few times. Which 0.1 ETH is sanctioned? At which address? When it was swapped in a Uniswap liquidity pool for a defi token which was provided as collateral on Aave then borrowed against in RAI only to be swapped for NFTs that were flipped for a profit and distributed to 27 different addresses?
  - spinny 4y ago
    I believe that the most used is the FIFO method (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1906.05754.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/1906.05754.pdf)
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

carlosdp 4y ago

> contract still live, i assume. i think it was governed by a DAO Just chiming in to make it clear that the protocols that have to do with the core service are not governed by a DAO and are fully immutable. Nobody can change or shutdown those smart contracts without the blockchain itself manipulating things, which is for all intents and purposes impossible.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> have effectively been told “you can’t legally use this for goods and services” No, they haven’t. When the Russian central bank was sanctioned, everyone who’s done business with them didn’t lose the dollars they were paid. They’re under more scrutiny, when they spend any of their dollars, because they were proximate to a sanctioned entity. But the funds are still theirs.

Bedon292 4y ago
Some users still have their funds inside the Tornado ecosystem. Its more like having your money in a bank account in Russia and you no longer have a legal way to get that money back to the US.

FpUser 4y ago

>"the GitHub ban is a warning to me though. i’m in (non-crypto) circles where we largely host our own repos" I am a small fish that develops software products for clients and for my own company. The chances of me being punished by Github are probably close to 0 since I do not do anything even remotely related to money, politics and other "hot and exiting" areas. Still unless explicitly requested by client I always host my own stuff either on my premises or on rented dedicated servers from OVH and Hetzner. The whole idea of someone else controlling my assets drives me up the wall and I am trying to avoid it as much as reasonably possible.

frozencell 4y ago
Do you use OVH because it hosts(Ed) Wikileaks?
- FpUser 4y ago
  Is it supposed to be sarcasm? I do not give a flying fuck what they host. They provide great hardware at reasonable prices. All I care about.
  - BenjiWiebe 4y ago
    They are pointing out that your assets are controlled by OVH and Hetzner, and wondering why you deem that more acceptable than GitHub.
    - FpUser 4y ago
      It is a rather longish explanation so I'll skip it as I am in no mood for such task. But it is my belief that they do not have level of control and influence that is anywhere close to Github. Especially when it comes to source code.
    - tsimionescu 4y ago
      For one, OVH and Hetzner can't legally mine your work to sell a code writing assistant software that may reproduce it in hole or in part.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

whoami_nr 4y ago

Do bear in mind that its riskier to use the mirrors. Without sufficient liquidity, it easy to track deposits and withdrawals.

miracle2k 4y ago
The mirrors refer to the interface. They interact with the same smart contracts and all share liquidity.