5 ms·

By my mid-30s and having started programming at 9 and professionally at 14, 200k is chump change for a salary. That's what they really haven't caught up to.

radicaldreamer 4y ago
This is only true for US salaries (and sometimes specifically within Bay Area/Seattle/New York markets)... pretty much everywhere else, salaries are a lot lower. L7 salaries are 300k base and around 400k equity in the US, so hiring experienced/accomplished developers is intensely difficult for companies outside of the top tier with high margins or startups with potential exits.
- gsibble 4y ago
  Definitely only true for US and certain geographical areas, including the one I'm in. All I'm really saying is top-tier, experienced talent in top paying geographies make significantly more than $200k.
Victerius 4y ago
200k is not chump change for every other profession. Get off your high horse. You're not special because you know software.
- glouwbug 4y ago
  Money really doesn't much once you've hit financial independence. I can live out the rest of my days with $1m invested. $200K-$500k annual salary, hell, even $100k, is enough at that point.
  - nawgz 4y ago
    “I can live out the rest of my days with ... $200K-$500k annual salary” Sorry, but this isn’t “living out the rest of my days with” money, this is a top 5-1% pay range you’ve just suggested. I don’t necessarily disagree with your point but anyone who needs a $500K salary clearly is not financially independent
    - gsibble 4y ago
      In the bay area, a $500k annual salary is really not that much in the grand scheme of thngs.
      - nawgz 4y ago
        It's literally an elite salary. It makes no sense to imply you're living a frugal, simple life if you need an elite salary to do it.
        gsibble 4y ago
        I wasn't the one who said I was living a frugal life.
        nawgz 4y ago
        You hopped in to defend the point, but go ahead and take your exit then
        radicaldreamer 4y ago
        It's all relative to cost of living (including taxes) and asset prices... even in relative terms though, it is possible to save a lot in the Bay Area if you're not consuming at the high end or have your eyes set on real estate.
        naniwaduni 4y ago
        I mean, if you're living in an area with COL high enough to eat through $500k, you are splurging on location, which isn't really any less infrugal than it would be to splurge on travel or imported luxury goods.
    - glouwbug 4y ago
      I'm from Canada. I make ~$100k/yr at the moment. It's considered a top 10% salary. I am content. Top 1% here is ~$200k/yr. It's a lot of money, but not a lot of money is needed frankly for the average Canadian. I don't think I'll ever reach $200k/yr+, so the $100k/yr I'm at I'm thankful for. Mind you, I'm not including housing. Housing in Vancouver in Toronto require I make more than $200k/yr which further solidifies the fact that Vancouver and Toronto are owned by the wealthy elite. I am not the wealthy elite. Our social healthcare has us covered in old age. I can live off $30k-40k/yr once retired. That's a 4% withdrawal rate off a 7% globally diversified ETF of $1m.
- gsibble 4y ago
  I wrote banking software that took a company's valuation from $400 million to $6 billion when it went public. That's not a special ability?
  - jstx1 4y ago
    There's probably a bunch of other people could have writeen it just as well or better and it wouldn't have made a difference to the valuation of the company anyway.
    - gsibble 4y ago
      That's actually quite an insulting thing to say.
      - plusmax1 4y ago
        But probably true nonetheless.
        gsibble 4y ago
        I'm not going to write a trieste on why my abilities were unique and let me write this software beyond to say I had worked in that specific industry for a long while, but there were not many people that could have pulled it off. When I left, they had to replace me with significantly more people at a significantly higher cost and it cost their growth and stock price quite a bit.
    - snerbles 4y ago
      You can throw up what-ifs and counterfactuals all day long - gsibble was the one who wrote the software.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    The problem is everyone else who worked for the company could claim the same nexus to adding $5.6bn of value to the company. Or were you the one that made all that money and the only one who could do it?
- jdminhbg 4y ago
  > You're not special because you know software. The article is about how hard it is to recruit developers, so presumably they are in fact at least a little bit special because they know software.
- truncate 4y ago
  I think the point he is making is in context of software engineer, which matters. When you have several option to get paid twice, 200k does seem like chump change (in Bay Area at-least). It is all relative. Don't think I'm special or deserve the pay I get, but given I've options no way I'd settle for less for same work.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  > You're not special because you know software. Of course not. But the market says otherwise. My partner literally saves people's lives on a daily basis and is lucky if she can earn a 1/4 of what I can. I console myself that at least my taxes pay for her salary.
claudiulodro 4y ago
I dunno, I think this might be a bias of your social circle. Looking at the latest levels.fyi submissions[1], the majority are for <$200k/yr. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?track=Software%20Engineer&showAll=true https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?track=Software%20Engineer&s...

radicaldreamer 4y ago

This is only true for US salaries (and sometimes specifically within Bay Area/Seattle/New York markets)... pretty much everywhere else, salaries are a lot lower. L7 salaries are 300k base and around 400k equity in the US, so hiring experienced/accomplished developers is intensely difficult for companies outside of the top tier with high margins or startups with potential exits.

gsibble 4y ago
Definitely only true for US and certain geographical areas, including the one I'm in. All I'm really saying is top-tier, experienced talent in top paying geographies make significantly more than $200k.

Victerius 4y ago

200k is not chump change for every other profession. Get off your high horse. You're not special because you know software.

glouwbug 4y ago
Money really doesn't much once you've hit financial independence. I can live out the rest of my days with $1m invested. $200K-$500k annual salary, hell, even $100k, is enough at that point.
- nawgz 4y ago
  “I can live out the rest of my days with ... $200K-$500k annual salary” Sorry, but this isn’t “living out the rest of my days with” money, this is a top 5-1% pay range you’ve just suggested. I don’t necessarily disagree with your point but anyone who needs a $500K salary clearly is not financially independent
  - gsibble 4y ago
    In the bay area, a $500k annual salary is really not that much in the grand scheme of thngs.
    - nawgz 4y ago
      It's literally an elite salary. It makes no sense to imply you're living a frugal, simple life if you need an elite salary to do it.
      - gsibble 4y ago
        I wasn't the one who said I was living a frugal life.
        nawgz 4y ago
        You hopped in to defend the point, but go ahead and take your exit then
      - radicaldreamer 4y ago
        It's all relative to cost of living (including taxes) and asset prices... even in relative terms though, it is possible to save a lot in the Bay Area if you're not consuming at the high end or have your eyes set on real estate.
        naniwaduni 4y ago
        I mean, if you're living in an area with COL high enough to eat through $500k, you are splurging on location, which isn't really any less infrugal than it would be to splurge on travel or imported luxury goods.
  - glouwbug 4y ago
    I'm from Canada. I make ~$100k/yr at the moment. It's considered a top 10% salary. I am content. Top 1% here is ~$200k/yr. It's a lot of money, but not a lot of money is needed frankly for the average Canadian. I don't think I'll ever reach $200k/yr+, so the $100k/yr I'm at I'm thankful for. Mind you, I'm not including housing. Housing in Vancouver in Toronto require I make more than $200k/yr which further solidifies the fact that Vancouver and Toronto are owned by the wealthy elite. I am not the wealthy elite. Our social healthcare has us covered in old age. I can live off $30k-40k/yr once retired. That's a 4% withdrawal rate off a 7% globally diversified ETF of $1m.
gsibble 4y ago
I wrote banking software that took a company's valuation from $400 million to $6 billion when it went public. That's not a special ability?
- jstx1 4y ago
  There's probably a bunch of other people could have writeen it just as well or better and it wouldn't have made a difference to the valuation of the company anyway.
  - gsibble 4y ago
    That's actually quite an insulting thing to say.
    - plusmax1 4y ago
      But probably true nonetheless.
      - gsibble 4y ago
        I'm not going to write a trieste on why my abilities were unique and let me write this software beyond to say I had worked in that specific industry for a long while, but there were not many people that could have pulled it off. When I left, they had to replace me with significantly more people at a significantly higher cost and it cost their growth and stock price quite a bit.
  - snerbles 4y ago
    You can throw up what-ifs and counterfactuals all day long - gsibble was the one who wrote the software.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  The problem is everyone else who worked for the company could claim the same nexus to adding $5.6bn of value to the company. Or were you the one that made all that money and the only one who could do it?
jdminhbg 4y ago
> You're not special because you know software. The article is about how hard it is to recruit developers, so presumably they are in fact at least a little bit special because they know software.
truncate 4y ago
I think the point he is making is in context of software engineer, which matters. When you have several option to get paid twice, 200k does seem like chump change (in Bay Area at-least). It is all relative. Don't think I'm special or deserve the pay I get, but given I've options no way I'd settle for less for same work.
wizofaus 4y ago
> You're not special because you know software. Of course not. But the market says otherwise. My partner literally saves people's lives on a daily basis and is lucky if she can earn a 1/4 of what I can. I console myself that at least my taxes pay for her salary.

claudiulodro 4y ago

I dunno, I think this might be a bias of your social circle. Looking at the latest levels.fyi submissions[1], the majority are for <$200k/yr. [1] https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?track=Software%20Engineer&showAll=true https://www.levels.fyi/comp.html?track=Software%20Engineer&s...