4 ms·

I get the objection to Apple's unencrypted iCloud backups, but could we present the facts without multiple exaggerations, distortions, and unsupported opinions,

by Bud 4y ago

I get the objection to Apple's unencrypted iCloud backups, but could we present the facts without multiple exaggerations, distortions, and unsupported opinions, please? First, no, it's not "everyone's iMessages". There has been a lot of very public discussion of this. If you don't back up your Messages to iCloud, which a lot of informed people don't do anymore, then Apple does not have that unencrypted copy. Second, unless you have support that Apple did this "for the FBI", specifically for that reason, as opposed to it being a mix of reasons, and also involving user-support reasons, as has been widely reported, please stop repeating that unsupported claim. And lastly, until Apple commits an offense of the nature under discussion here, let's not tar them with the same broad brush as we are justly using to tar Facebook.

sneak 4y ago
> If you don't back up your Messages to iCloud, which a lot of informed people don't do anymore, then Apple does not have that unencrypted copy. This is false. Apple will still have the unencrypted copies (actually, the effectively-unencrypted sync keys, as "Messages in iCloud" cross-device sync keys are the thing at issue here) because the people you iMessage with will be providing them to Apple. iCloud Backup is on by default, so approximately everyone you talk to using iMessage is escrowing their private keys to Apple. Turning off iCloud Backup on your device does not protect your iMessages, as the backdoor exists on the devices of both conversation participants. It's sort of like switching email providers to get away from Gmail; if everyone you send or receive emails to/from is using Gmail, Google is still getting a copy of all of your correspondence. > Second, unless you have support that Apple did this "for the FBI", specifically for that reason, as opposed to it being a mix of reasons, and also involving user-support reasons, as has been widely reported, please stop repeating that unsupported claim. I updated the comment with the link to the Reuters article that says they did this specifically for the FBI. From the article: > More than two years ago, Apple told the FBI that it planned to offer users end-to-end encryption when storing their phone data on iCloud, according to one current and three former FBI officials and one current and one former Apple employee. > Under that plan, primarily designed to thwart hackers, Apple would no longer have a key to unlock the encrypted data, meaning it would not be able to turn material over to authorities in a readable form even under court order. > In private talks with Apple soon after, representatives of the FBI’s cyber crime agents and its operational technology division objected to the plan, arguing it would deny them the most effective means for gaining evidence against iPhone-using suspects, the government sources said. > When Apple spoke privately to the FBI about its work on phone security the following year, the end-to-end encryption plan had been dropped, according to the six sources. Reuters could not determine why exactly Apple dropped the plan. > “Legal killed it, for reasons you can imagine,” another former Apple employee said he was told, without any specific mention of why the plan was dropped or if the FBI was a factor in the decision.

by Bud 4y ago

sneak 4y ago

> If you don't back up your Messages to iCloud, which a lot of informed people don't do anymore, then Apple does not have that unencrypted copy. This is false. Apple will still have the unencrypted copies (actually, the effectively-unencrypted sync keys, as "Messages in iCloud" cross-device sync keys are the thing at issue here) because the people you iMessage with will be providing them to Apple. iCloud Backup is on by default, so approximately everyone you talk to using iMessage is escrowing their private keys to Apple. Turning off iCloud Backup on your device does not protect your iMessages, as the backdoor exists on the devices of both conversation participants. It's sort of like switching email providers to get away from Gmail; if everyone you send or receive emails to/from is using Gmail, Google is still getting a copy of all of your correspondence. > Second, unless you have support that Apple did this "for the FBI", specifically for that reason, as opposed to it being a mix of reasons, and also involving user-support reasons, as has been widely reported, please stop repeating that unsupported claim. I updated the comment with the link to the Reuters article that says they did this specifically for the FBI. From the article: > More than two years ago, Apple told the FBI that it planned to offer users end-to-end encryption when storing their phone data on iCloud, according to one current and three former FBI officials and one current and one former Apple employee. > Under that plan, primarily designed to thwart hackers, Apple would no longer have a key to unlock the encrypted data, meaning it would not be able to turn material over to authorities in a readable form even under court order. > In private talks with Apple soon after, representatives of the FBI’s cyber crime agents and its operational technology division objected to the plan, arguing it would deny them the most effective means for gaining evidence against iPhone-using suspects, the government sources said. > When Apple spoke privately to the FBI about its work on phone security the following year, the end-to-end encryption plan had been dropped, according to the six sources. Reuters could not determine why exactly Apple dropped the plan. > “Legal killed it, for reasons you can imagine,” another former Apple employee said he was told, without any specific mention of why the plan was dropped or if the FBI was a factor in the decision.