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Dead trees (coal, oil and gas) are the master resource, and we have peaked globally. Electricity is the only energy that removes quality from the equation (ele

by bullen 4y ago

Dead trees (coal, oil and gas) are the master resource, and we have peaked globally. Electricity is the only energy that removes quality from the equation (electrons are all the same). https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU000072610 Electricity is not an energy source, so you have to burn dead trees to get it. Solar, wind, nuclear and hydro are NOT going to solve anything. Stop driving and flying now. Work from home. Bicycle and train for the rest.

unethical_ban 4y ago
>Solar, wind, nuclear and hydro are NOT going to solve anything. Without a qualifier for time, I can't take this seriously.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Right? I live in BC Canada. The province is at about 95% non-fossil fuels for electricity (a large part of that remaining 5% is remote communities where hooking into the grid is prohibitive.) We have also cut our CO2 per KWH by 65% since 2010. Perhaps tis just coincidence that our carbon tax was introduced in 2008, and has increased yearly.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
fiat_fandango 4y ago
The kicker is that we're currently only paying the price of extraction, not the true price of the energy itself. Electrification only accounts for a very small part of the solution since fossil fuels are still immensely important for many other industrial processes that can't simply be electrified. Interestingly, total net extraction of available oil peaked around 2019 - I'm not sure we'll ever see numbers like that again. Highly recommend looking into the academic work / podcasts of Nate Hagens. His social theory is flawed in my opinion, but his reasoning on energy is impeccable.
osrec 4y ago
Why will renewables not solve anything? What about nuclear?
- bullen 4y ago
  Wind, solar, nuclear and hydro can not be built with electricity at scale, you need coal, oil and gas to mine and melt steel (1500C) and burn lime stone (1500C for 3 hours) for concrete. Also you cannot make food with electricity at scale; tractors, trucks and fertilizers (500C + 200 Bar) need hydrocarbons.
  - legulere 4y ago
    Haber-Bosch does not take hydrocarbons as an input but hydrogen. Methane currently just is a convenient cheap source of that. It will be difficult but there’s nothing fundamental that prevents us from making concrete, steel tractors and trucks without fossil fuels.
eloff 4y ago
Buried hydrocarbons are mostly not dead trees. It's usually from long buried microscopic sea life (plankton, algae). > Electricity is not an energy source, so you have to burn dead trees to get it. Or from nuclear, renewables, etc. They definately can solve the problem when it comes to electricity. The problem is not everything is electrified. There's also a question of how long it would take at an investment rate we're willing to make.
legulere 4y ago
How do you have burn dead trees with renewables or nuclear? I mean I agree that they probably won’t be enough without reducing our consumption but they are far from not solving anything

by bullen 4y ago

unethical_ban 4y ago

>Solar, wind, nuclear and hydro are NOT going to solve anything. Without a qualifier for time, I can't take this seriously.

dghlsakjg 4y ago
Right? I live in BC Canada. The province is at about 95% non-fossil fuels for electricity (a large part of that remaining 5% is remote communities where hooking into the grid is prohibitive.) We have also cut our CO2 per KWH by 65% since 2010. Perhaps tis just coincidence that our carbon tax was introduced in 2008, and has increased yearly.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

fiat_fandango 4y ago

The kicker is that we're currently only paying the price of extraction, not the true price of the energy itself. Electrification only accounts for a very small part of the solution since fossil fuels are still immensely important for many other industrial processes that can't simply be electrified. Interestingly, total net extraction of available oil peaked around 2019 - I'm not sure we'll ever see numbers like that again. Highly recommend looking into the academic work / podcasts of Nate Hagens. His social theory is flawed in my opinion, but his reasoning on energy is impeccable.

osrec 4y ago

Why will renewables not solve anything? What about nuclear?

bullen 4y ago
Wind, solar, nuclear and hydro can not be built with electricity at scale, you need coal, oil and gas to mine and melt steel (1500C) and burn lime stone (1500C for 3 hours) for concrete. Also you cannot make food with electricity at scale; tractors, trucks and fertilizers (500C + 200 Bar) need hydrocarbons.
- legulere 4y ago
  Haber-Bosch does not take hydrocarbons as an input but hydrogen. Methane currently just is a convenient cheap source of that. It will be difficult but there’s nothing fundamental that prevents us from making concrete, steel tractors and trucks without fossil fuels.

eloff 4y ago

Buried hydrocarbons are mostly not dead trees. It's usually from long buried microscopic sea life (plankton, algae). > Electricity is not an energy source, so you have to burn dead trees to get it. Or from nuclear, renewables, etc. They definately can solve the problem when it comes to electricity. The problem is not everything is electrified. There's also a question of how long it would take at an investment rate we're willing to make.

legulere 4y ago

How do you have burn dead trees with renewables or nuclear? I mean I agree that they probably won’t be enough without reducing our consumption but they are far from not solving anything