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Execution is about engineers. Intel can't retain their engineers. Without good engineers you can't compete. So you downsize and try compete only on one thing --

Execution is about engineers. Intel can't retain their engineers. Without good engineers you can't compete. So you downsize and try compete only on one thing -- better x86. Pat Gs return as CEO does help with engineer retention though.

PaulHoule 4y ago
For the last 20 years there have always been stories in the press about how Intel is laying off 10,000 engineers. It never struck me as a very psychologically safe place to work.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  IIRC, they had (maybe still have?) a policy of laying off the bottom 5%. Every year. For a company that size, it's a lot of engineers. But yes, that probably does not make it a psychologically safe place to work...
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    It's a dangerous policy because the one person who never gets laid off is the narcissist who is good at managing people's impressions of them.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Execution is about engineers. Meh, not really. Google has some of the best engineers in the world yet they fail at nearly everything that isn't related to search, android, ads and e-mail. Even Jensen Huang said that it's more about vision and not all about execution. He said in the early days of Nvidia all of their competitors at the time had engineers good enough to execute, yet only they had the winning vision that enabled them to make and sell exactly what the market wanted, nothing more, nothing less.
- khitchdee 4y ago
  Google used to be search only. Now they have Android. That's pretty good.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    And how many other dozens of products did Google build then kill off due to failure? Similar to Intel.
    - khitchdee 4y ago
      Intel does not have a number 2. They only own x86. They have failed to diversify.
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        >Intel does not have a number 2 Yeah they do, Intel has the FPGA division they bought from Altera. That's a huge business on its own. And my point still stands: having great engineers is not enough for great execution. You need great leadership with a vision a-la Steve Jobs or Jensen Huang.
      - __d 4y ago
        They have _tried_ to diversify: They have competitive NICs, although they don't seem to be maintaining the lead there they once had. They bought competitive network switches. These have largely languished, in part because they sat on the IP and then targeted it at weird niches. They bought Altera. I feel like it had lost some momentum vs. Xilinx, but with AMD acquiring the latter, it's probably going to end up a wash. The AI chips are kinda too early to tell, but at least they're playing the game. Overall, I think they have squandered the massive advantage they had in CPUs for the last 3 decades.
        touisteur 4y ago
        Oh yeah I'm waiting for their 200G NICs while NVIDIA is ramping up connectx 7 with 400G on PCIe5... The low end AI chips are a mess. Myriad-X can be used only through openvino, and they've been closing details about the internals... Keembay is... Years late? Is there anything coming out of Intel these days? And what happened to nervana systems, became plaidml then disappeared after bought by Intel? Maxas was really great and now, crickets. Even profiling tools, which they used to be on top of, don't seem to work well on Linux w/ the TigerLake gpu. It's so painful to debug and program, they might as well have not put it in...
alfalfasprout 4y ago
It's a bit of everything but yeah, what I've seen is basically that Intel has a combination of absolutely insane talent working on some really hard problems and a lot of mediocre talent that they churn through. And the reality is that yeah, with their comp for engineers so abysmally bad why would anyone really go there? Especially when it's not like they're getting great WLB.
- khitchdee 4y ago
  Their stock options are not worth anything now. It's no longer a great place to work. Because they do not show you the money.

PaulHoule 4y ago

For the last 20 years there have always been stories in the press about how Intel is laying off 10,000 engineers. It never struck me as a very psychologically safe place to work.

AnimalMuppet 4y ago
IIRC, they had (maybe still have?) a policy of laying off the bottom 5%. Every year. For a company that size, it's a lot of engineers. But yes, that probably does not make it a psychologically safe place to work...
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  It's a dangerous policy because the one person who never gets laid off is the narcissist who is good at managing people's impressions of them.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>Execution is about engineers. Meh, not really. Google has some of the best engineers in the world yet they fail at nearly everything that isn't related to search, android, ads and e-mail. Even Jensen Huang said that it's more about vision and not all about execution. He said in the early days of Nvidia all of their competitors at the time had engineers good enough to execute, yet only they had the winning vision that enabled them to make and sell exactly what the market wanted, nothing more, nothing less.

khitchdee 4y ago
Google used to be search only. Now they have Android. That's pretty good.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  And how many other dozens of products did Google build then kill off due to failure? Similar to Intel.
  - khitchdee 4y ago
    Intel does not have a number 2. They only own x86. They have failed to diversify.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      >Intel does not have a number 2 Yeah they do, Intel has the FPGA division they bought from Altera. That's a huge business on its own. And my point still stands: having great engineers is not enough for great execution. You need great leadership with a vision a-la Steve Jobs or Jensen Huang.
    - __d 4y ago
      They have _tried_ to diversify: They have competitive NICs, although they don't seem to be maintaining the lead there they once had. They bought competitive network switches. These have largely languished, in part because they sat on the IP and then targeted it at weird niches. They bought Altera. I feel like it had lost some momentum vs. Xilinx, but with AMD acquiring the latter, it's probably going to end up a wash. The AI chips are kinda too early to tell, but at least they're playing the game. Overall, I think they have squandered the massive advantage they had in CPUs for the last 3 decades.
      - touisteur 4y ago
        Oh yeah I'm waiting for their 200G NICs while NVIDIA is ramping up connectx 7 with 400G on PCIe5... The low end AI chips are a mess. Myriad-X can be used only through openvino, and they've been closing details about the internals... Keembay is... Years late? Is there anything coming out of Intel these days? And what happened to nervana systems, became plaidml then disappeared after bought by Intel? Maxas was really great and now, crickets. Even profiling tools, which they used to be on top of, don't seem to work well on Linux w/ the TigerLake gpu. It's so painful to debug and program, they might as well have not put it in...

alfalfasprout 4y ago

It's a bit of everything but yeah, what I've seen is basically that Intel has a combination of absolutely insane talent working on some really hard problems and a lot of mediocre talent that they churn through. And the reality is that yeah, with their comp for engineers so abysmally bad why would anyone really go there? Especially when it's not like they're getting great WLB.

khitchdee 4y ago
Their stock options are not worth anything now. It's no longer a great place to work. Because they do not show you the money.