17 ms·

Doing meth to the point that it kills your baby is in fact murder.

anigbrowl 4y ago
Not unless you can prove intent, which is probably why the case was dismissed - https://www.ktvu.com/news/murder-case-of-meth-user-who-delivered-stillbirth-dismissed https://www.ktvu.com/news/murder-case-of-meth-user-who-deliv... In any case, such nuance is likely beyond the grasp of a 17 year old. I think you are well aware that this doesn't always yield simple seeming edge cases and that you are capable of looking into other examples but chose not to. Here's some more. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61995250 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61995250
sophacles 4y ago
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  - sophacles 4y ago
    Oh we call that thing a fetus. Babies are what some fetuses turn into, after there is an event called "birth".
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      Oh. Well that fetus at that point knew the sound of it's mothers voice. It had a preference for a dominant hand. It could taste the difference across foods mom was eating. It felt pain, the same way you and I felt pain. If you wouldn't inject a kitten or a puppy with meth just for fun, you probably shouldn't do it to a fetus either.
      - sophacles 4y ago
        Sure, whatever you say - I think your claims are realistic. For example, your bit about a fetus (one floating in amniotic fluid) breathing was 100% believable. And the part where it was seeing light though the woman's body was down-right amazing "science".
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        Actually I never mentioned sight - even once born babies have very blurry and rough eyesight (it might be near monochromatic but we aren't sure). They do breathe in the womb - both by getting oxygenated blood through the umbilical cord and by inhaling and exhaling amniotic fluid. This starts at 10 weeks. (Also why you see doctors flip babies after birth - to clear amniotic fluid from their respiratory system)
        sophacles 4y ago
        > That felt it's lungs fail to process air and that slowly choked and felt pain everywhere in it's body until the lights dimmed You said this. You literally claimed that the fetus was breathing air. I will grant that the lights dimming might have been a metaphor, but in the context of a sentence suggesting the fetus was breathing air, I strongly doubt it wasn't literal.
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        I deeply apologize for saying the dying baby full of meth breathed air and not amniotic fluid. I will aspire to do better next time when discussing the painful deaths of babies.
        sophacles 4y ago
        > painful deaths of babies 1. fetuses 2. citation needed. Meth is a drug that causes euphoria and (amongst other things) a general lack of concern for pain (if it's even noticed). Please stop making random things up and asserting them as true.
    - trebbble 4y ago
      - sophacles 4y ago
        Correct terminology is important. Things like "heartbeat laws" that apply to embryos that don't actually even have hearts yet are the result of playing fast and loose with terms.

Not unless you can prove intent, which is probably why the case was dismissed - https://www.ktvu.com/news/murder-case-of-meth-user-who-delivered-stillbirth-dismissed https://www.ktvu.com/news/murder-case-of-meth-user-who-deliv... In any case, such nuance is likely beyond the grasp of a 17 year old. I think you are well aware that this doesn't always yield simple seeming edge cases and that you are capable of looking into other examples but chose not to. Here's some more. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61995250 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-61995250

sophacles 4y ago

vorpalhex 4y ago
- sophacles 4y ago
  Oh we call that thing a fetus. Babies are what some fetuses turn into, after there is an event called "birth".
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Oh. Well that fetus at that point knew the sound of it's mothers voice. It had a preference for a dominant hand. It could taste the difference across foods mom was eating. It felt pain, the same way you and I felt pain. If you wouldn't inject a kitten or a puppy with meth just for fun, you probably shouldn't do it to a fetus either.
    - sophacles 4y ago
      Sure, whatever you say - I think your claims are realistic. For example, your bit about a fetus (one floating in amniotic fluid) breathing was 100% believable. And the part where it was seeing light though the woman's body was down-right amazing "science".
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        Actually I never mentioned sight - even once born babies have very blurry and rough eyesight (it might be near monochromatic but we aren't sure). They do breathe in the womb - both by getting oxygenated blood through the umbilical cord and by inhaling and exhaling amniotic fluid. This starts at 10 weeks. (Also why you see doctors flip babies after birth - to clear amniotic fluid from their respiratory system)
        sophacles 4y ago
        > That felt it's lungs fail to process air and that slowly choked and felt pain everywhere in it's body until the lights dimmed You said this. You literally claimed that the fetus was breathing air. I will grant that the lights dimming might have been a metaphor, but in the context of a sentence suggesting the fetus was breathing air, I strongly doubt it wasn't literal.
        vorpalhex 4y ago
        I deeply apologize for saying the dying baby full of meth breathed air and not amniotic fluid. I will aspire to do better next time when discussing the painful deaths of babies.
        sophacles 4y ago
        > painful deaths of babies 1. fetuses 2. citation needed. Meth is a drug that causes euphoria and (amongst other things) a general lack of concern for pain (if it's even noticed). Please stop making random things up and asserting them as true.
  - trebbble 4y ago
    - sophacles 4y ago
      Correct terminology is important. Things like "heartbeat laws" that apply to embryos that don't actually even have hearts yet are the result of playing fast and loose with terms.