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> Obeying the law in this case is clearly immoral Everyone has different morals. That's why laws exist.

kragen 4y ago
People have different beliefs about many different things, not just morals. For example, some people believe that the Earth was created 6000 years ago. I'm not claiming my beliefs are infallible, just explaining what they are and, in some cases, why I hold them. It's difficult to tell from your one-line comment, but it sounds like one of your beliefs is moral relativism: that there is no objective reality of what is good and bad, only "different morals" held by different people. That belief is false.* Laws exist only in the same sense that Zeus or Santa Claus exists, which I think is the sense you believe that morals exist: they are collections of ideas that are passed from mind to mind, but there is no sense in which it can be objectively true or false to say, "The law forbids [such and such]." There is only, at best, a social consensus. ______ * Of course, my belief that goodness and badness exist objectively is fallible, but even if it is as incorrect as the belief that the Earth was created 6000 years ago, its veracity is still an objective question; it could be true, false, or partly true, but not meaningless.
- worik 4y ago
  The law has more existence than Santa Clause
  - kragen 4y ago
    Mere assertion does not constitute an argument. It is unfortunate that you think you are contributing to the conversation by posting a one-line statement that simply repeats conventional beliefs. What evidences can you give for the existence of the law that cannot also be given for Santa Claus? Or could not be given for Zeus, if we were in Classical Greece?
    - worik 4y ago
      Doe it matter? It is obvious. But for the fun of it: The law is written down, codified in a formal way that is consistent across writing. The law is backed up by police thugs. The law has formal processes of creation and destruction. Santa Claus has none of these things.

People have different beliefs about many different things, not just morals. For example, some people believe that the Earth was created 6000 years ago. I'm not claiming my beliefs are infallible, just explaining what they are and, in some cases, why I hold them. It's difficult to tell from your one-line comment, but it sounds like one of your beliefs is moral relativism: that there is no objective reality of what is good and bad, only "different morals" held by different people. That belief is false.* Laws exist only in the same sense that Zeus or Santa Claus exists, which I think is the sense you believe that morals exist: they are collections of ideas that are passed from mind to mind, but there is no sense in which it can be objectively true or false to say, "The law forbids [such and such]." There is only, at best, a social consensus. ______ * Of course, my belief that goodness and badness exist objectively is fallible, but even if it is as incorrect as the belief that the Earth was created 6000 years ago, its veracity is still an objective question; it could be true, false, or partly true, but not meaningless.

worik 4y ago
The law has more existence than Santa Clause
- kragen 4y ago
  Mere assertion does not constitute an argument. It is unfortunate that you think you are contributing to the conversation by posting a one-line statement that simply repeats conventional beliefs. What evidences can you give for the existence of the law that cannot also be given for Santa Claus? Or could not be given for Zeus, if we were in Classical Greece?
  - worik 4y ago
    Doe it matter? It is obvious. But for the fun of it: The law is written down, codified in a formal way that is consistent across writing. The law is backed up by police thugs. The law has formal processes of creation and destruction. Santa Claus has none of these things.