5 ms·

One thing I don't understand is that crypto and web3 are about taking back control, but anyone can drop anything in my wallet. Is that correct? It makes me anxi

One thing I don't understand is that crypto and web3 are about taking back control, but anyone can drop anything in my wallet. Is that correct? It makes me anxious about participating because I can't control that.

silverlake 4y ago
Anyone can transfer money into your bank account.
- belltaco 4y ago
  Not from a sanctioned entity. Banks block transactions to and from those.
  - ptudan 4y ago
    Right, and if you want to use a CEX wallet, go ahead. They will block sanctioned addresses and move those funds into a frozen account for the feds.
Ferret7446 4y ago
Anyone can drop anything in your bank account, are you anxious about that?
- echelon 4y ago
  Performing an ACH will get your account picked up by the FinCEN and KYC dragnet. These are in no way comparable. I'm getting tired of these dishonest "crypto is the same" arguments. It's not even close. Banking is well regulated and monitored. There are mechanisms to protect people, rout out bad actors, and legal means to reverse transactions. Crypto is a "code is law" wild west, full of sharp edges and irreversible hacks and scams.
  - gjs278 4y ago
  - rvz 4y ago
    Maybe you can also ask how Santander 'Santa' Bank are doing after accidentally transferring or gifting £130M into people's accounts which they are still struggling to recover as the transfer is irreversible. [0] Maybe those affected have already spent their Christmas present from 'Santa'. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59826345 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59826345
    - yababa_y 4y ago
      Are there any important differences in this area between US and UK law?
  - solveit 4y ago
    The correct comparison is "anyone can drop cash (or anything else) in your backpack" and yes, this does make me nervous especially when I'm traveling internationally. Also, it's harder to drop cash in your bag than it is to sign a crypto transaction.
    - labrador 4y ago
      This is the best analogy, eg "Someone made me their drug mule"
  - t_mann 4y ago
    There are legal means to force the recipient to send back erroneously sent funds in bank payment systems, the transactions themselves are generally non-reversible (some banks learnt that the hard way after accidentally sending money to Lehman Brothers after their collapse). The same rules apply to blockchains too, and people have successfully demanded refunds where the other party was known. It seems that the reason you're seeing a tiring amount of seemingly false claims is that your own information set isn't exactly correct.
- labrador 4y ago
  The following scenario is unlikely with my regular banking account: A ransomware victim accidentally transfers 10 million dollars in Bitcoin to my account and the next day the ransomware actors show up armed and dangerous to my house demanding that I transfer it to their bank account
  - valarauko 4y ago
    How would the ransomware actors know the home address of a random Bitcoin wallet?
    - NullPrefix 4y ago
      It's easier to link a regular bank account with a home address
    - labrador 4y ago
      My policy is to never assume I am anonymous on the internet because I am not a security expert. From what I read, most people can be found. I'm basing this on the clever way they found Dread Pirate Roberts. https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/newyork/news/press-releases/ross-ulbricht-aka-dread-pirate-roberts-sentenced-in-manhattan-federal-court-to-life-in-prison https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/newyork/news/pr...
      - valarauko 4y ago
        AFAIK, he wasn't found on the basis of his home address being figured out from his Bitcoin wallet. Could a determined state level actor hell-bent on tracking you down accomplish it, based just on a BTC wallet address? Dubious, but never say never. Could anybody short of a three letter agency do it? I don't think so.
  - yieldcrv 4y ago
    can you elaborate on why you think that is possible with Bitcoin?
    - 4y ago
baby 4y ago
Not necessarily. If you were a bank using ethereum as a backend you would track how much of the stained fund was received and leave it there to never use it.
tromp 4y ago
It's correct for most blockchains, but not for Mimblewimble ones, as those require a joint signature by sender and receiver in order to construct a valid transaction (requiring a few rounds of interaction between them).
Toxygene 4y ago
Reminds me of the Venmo scam I encountered a month ago. Some person I don't know sent me $50, then tried to send me a request for $50, but accidentally sent me another $50. I'm confident this was a scam, so I sent a support request to Venmo and let them deal with it. It was pretty frustrating that I was never prompted to accept the funds. Is this standard practice with many of these "send money" applications?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
t_mann 4y ago
How anxious does your bank account make you feel in that regard? It's the same there. I actually can't think of examples of payment systems that have refusability built in. In fact, you can be interest if your bank accidentally sends you money (there was a case in Germany I believe, can't find it right now).
- labrador 4y ago
  I'm not concerned because there's an audit trail for money deposited in my bank account. Money can't just fall out of the anonymous cloud into my bank account leaving me to explain where it came from

silverlake 4y ago

Anyone can transfer money into your bank account.

belltaco 4y ago
Not from a sanctioned entity. Banks block transactions to and from those.
- ptudan 4y ago
  Right, and if you want to use a CEX wallet, go ahead. They will block sanctioned addresses and move those funds into a frozen account for the feds.

Ferret7446 4y ago

Anyone can drop anything in your bank account, are you anxious about that?

echelon 4y ago
Performing an ACH will get your account picked up by the FinCEN and KYC dragnet. These are in no way comparable. I'm getting tired of these dishonest "crypto is the same" arguments. It's not even close. Banking is well regulated and monitored. There are mechanisms to protect people, rout out bad actors, and legal means to reverse transactions. Crypto is a "code is law" wild west, full of sharp edges and irreversible hacks and scams.
- gjs278 4y ago
- rvz 4y ago
  Maybe you can also ask how Santander 'Santa' Bank are doing after accidentally transferring or gifting £130M into people's accounts which they are still struggling to recover as the transfer is irreversible. [0] Maybe those affected have already spent their Christmas present from 'Santa'. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59826345 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59826345
  - yababa_y 4y ago
    Are there any important differences in this area between US and UK law?
- solveit 4y ago
  The correct comparison is "anyone can drop cash (or anything else) in your backpack" and yes, this does make me nervous especially when I'm traveling internationally. Also, it's harder to drop cash in your bag than it is to sign a crypto transaction.
  - labrador 4y ago
    This is the best analogy, eg "Someone made me their drug mule"
- t_mann 4y ago
  There are legal means to force the recipient to send back erroneously sent funds in bank payment systems, the transactions themselves are generally non-reversible (some banks learnt that the hard way after accidentally sending money to Lehman Brothers after their collapse). The same rules apply to blockchains too, and people have successfully demanded refunds where the other party was known. It seems that the reason you're seeing a tiring amount of seemingly false claims is that your own information set isn't exactly correct.
labrador 4y ago
The following scenario is unlikely with my regular banking account: A ransomware victim accidentally transfers 10 million dollars in Bitcoin to my account and the next day the ransomware actors show up armed and dangerous to my house demanding that I transfer it to their bank account
- valarauko 4y ago
  How would the ransomware actors know the home address of a random Bitcoin wallet?
  - NullPrefix 4y ago
    It's easier to link a regular bank account with a home address
  - labrador 4y ago
    My policy is to never assume I am anonymous on the internet because I am not a security expert. From what I read, most people can be found. I'm basing this on the clever way they found Dread Pirate Roberts. https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/newyork/news/press-releases/ross-ulbricht-aka-dread-pirate-roberts-sentenced-in-manhattan-federal-court-to-life-in-prison https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/newyork/news/pr...
    - valarauko 4y ago
      AFAIK, he wasn't found on the basis of his home address being figured out from his Bitcoin wallet. Could a determined state level actor hell-bent on tracking you down accomplish it, based just on a BTC wallet address? Dubious, but never say never. Could anybody short of a three letter agency do it? I don't think so.
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  can you elaborate on why you think that is possible with Bitcoin?
  - 4y ago

baby 4y ago

Not necessarily. If you were a bank using ethereum as a backend you would track how much of the stained fund was received and leave it there to never use it.

tromp 4y ago

It's correct for most blockchains, but not for Mimblewimble ones, as those require a joint signature by sender and receiver in order to construct a valid transaction (requiring a few rounds of interaction between them).

Toxygene 4y ago

Reminds me of the Venmo scam I encountered a month ago. Some person I don't know sent me $50, then tried to send me a request for $50, but accidentally sent me another $50. I'm confident this was a scam, so I sent a support request to Venmo and let them deal with it. It was pretty frustrating that I was never prompted to accept the funds. Is this standard practice with many of these "send money" applications?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

t_mann 4y ago

How anxious does your bank account make you feel in that regard? It's the same there. I actually can't think of examples of payment systems that have refusability built in. In fact, you can be interest if your bank accidentally sends you money (there was a case in Germany I believe, can't find it right now).

labrador 4y ago
I'm not concerned because there's an audit trail for money deposited in my bank account. Money can't just fall out of the anonymous cloud into my bank account leaving me to explain where it came from