5 ms·

Why macOS Ventura Share menu is bad

31 points by sylens 4y ago

PaulHoule 4y ago
I've got no love for the typography in those screenshots.
- lapcat 4y ago
  The screenshots were taken on a non-retina monitor. I installed Ventura on a secondary Mac only used for testing various OS versions.
dt2m 4y ago
It's so crazy how big the divide between Apple's software and hardware is getting. They're putting out the best hardware ever - by a huge margin - and yet their own internal software quality is going down the drain, fast. The one thing Mac OS X got right in 2001 was consistency and predictability. When you learned how the UI worked in one app, it was almost guaranteed to behave the same in other apps. Now today, we have this mess of Catalyst apps, SwiftUI apps, old Cocoa apps, and even worse, Electron apps. Scroll speed and behaviour is inconsistent across all of them. Drag-and-drop support, once a hallmark of the Mac UI, is spotty at best. Even basic stuff breaks every once in a while. It's wild to consider that Apple literally wrote the book[1] on how to provide a consistent experience for an entire OS, and yet they don't seem to be able to follow it themselves anymore. [1]: http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  >They're putting out the best hardware ever - by a huge margin ... not really. They basically put phone processors into laptops because they realized that most people use their laptops exactly like they use their phones. The new M1/M2 machines have ever so slightly higher single core performance, comparable multi core performance, and when you run them full tilt, the battery doesn't last that long and they start thermal throttling. The only time their battery lasts long is when you use them like phones. Its a neat use case for sure, but nothing ground breaking. On top of everything, monitors are still at 60hz, external monitor support is shit especially without a dedicated hdmi port, and repairability is a joke. Apple has, is, and always will be a jewelry manufacturer.
  - dt2m 4y ago
    I'm writing this comment from a 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro, which is hands down the best laptop I've ever used, also for high-performance workloads. I prefer using Mac OS but I'm not married to the OS by any means, and if it was the other way around I'd be switching to some Lenovo + Linux combo. There's no denying that ARM is a much better architecture for any device that has power constraints. Add Apple's vertical integration, and you have a winner on your hands. Granted, for desktops, x86-64 still has a lead in performance, but it's impossible to max out an Intel-powered laptop for more than 2 hours on battery power. Getting close to that level of performance, but without the horrible fan noise and burning lap is much more preferable to me. The entire Pro lineup - laptops, tablets and phones - all have 120Hz displays. I would fault them for releasing the 60Hz Studio Display, but it is literally impossible to source a 5K panel with higher refresh rates at this time of writing. External monitor support being shit - honestly not my experience, but OK - is more likely to be a byproduct of limited USB-C bandwidth, which you can work around using Thunderbolt docks or the built-in HDMI port. I will agree that Windows handles multiple monitors much better than Mac OS though.
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      I'd imagine if Apple really wanted LG or somebody to manufacture a 5K 120Hz panel if they wanted. For some reason Mac OS still doesn't support MST. A $400 Steam Deck with 1 USB C port can handle multiple 1080p monitors natively with a $30 adapter but a $1200 M2 Air can't do it (even though it has 2 video out capable USB C ports) without resorting to a limited more expensive solution like DisplayLink or Airplay.
  - cpressland 4y ago
    This just isn’t true. I have a full development setup on my M1 Pro 14”, VSCode, Docker running multiple instances of Postgres, Redis, and RabbitMQ. Edge with more tabs than I can shake a stick at because of my ADHD, and worst of all - Microsoft Teams. I easily get a 12-14 hour battery life on this setup, and that’s with YouTube videos also playing in the background intermittently. Back when I had the M1 Air, I had less concurrency due to memory limitations but even better battery life, these CPUs are insanely efficient. Everybody’s mileage will vary, but this is a powerhouse development machine, to suggest otherwise is silly.
- Someone 4y ago
  > The one thing Mac OS X got right in 2001 was consistency and predictability. Compared to earlier Mac OS, it wasn’t, by a huge margin. Mac OS X was a weird mix of NeXTSTEP and Mac OS, with inconsistent text editing (for example, it had both control-a and command-left arrow to move the cursor to the beginning of a line, working depending on what framework the app was written in, and “page up” might or might not move the selection hor is that a Windows vs Mac thing?)), file name weirdness (Mac OS allowed ‘/’ inside file names and disallowed ‘:’, for NeXTSTEP, it was the other way around. Somehow, the two had to meet on disk), different text layout engines, a desktop UI that tried to be both a file system browser and a classic Mac OS Finder and didn’t quite know whether to use filename extensions or type/creator codes, and to top it off, a Unix CLI merged in.
  - dt2m 4y ago
    That's actually a great point. I was coming from Windows at that point in time and the contrast alone in UI consistency was huge. But then again, it seems like the MS mantra has always been 'anything goes' when it comes to UI. Maybe I'm just having my "old man yells at cloud" moment and I'm annoyed things are changing.
h4waii 4y ago
I wholeheartedly agree with these issues, and what order are the share options in, anyway? Alphabetical makes sense to me, and I guess so does having it in "most recently used", but I much prefer my selection targets to consistently be in the same place. I've never been an Apple user, but it seems they have slowly been getting worse in terms of "user experience" and interface consistency.
andrekandre 4y ago
from the looks of it, they are using a popover instead of a menu for... a submenu? other concerns aside, why even propose such a change ...? whats wrong with a menu on a desktop os?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
chadlavi 4y ago
It's in beta. I sure hope the author submitted feedback.

31 points by sylens 4y ago

PaulHoule 4y ago

I've got no love for the typography in those screenshots.

lapcat 4y ago
The screenshots were taken on a non-retina monitor. I installed Ventura on a secondary Mac only used for testing various OS versions.

dt2m 4y ago

It's so crazy how big the divide between Apple's software and hardware is getting. They're putting out the best hardware ever - by a huge margin - and yet their own internal software quality is going down the drain, fast. The one thing Mac OS X got right in 2001 was consistency and predictability. When you learned how the UI worked in one app, it was almost guaranteed to behave the same in other apps. Now today, we have this mess of Catalyst apps, SwiftUI apps, old Cocoa apps, and even worse, Electron apps. Scroll speed and behaviour is inconsistent across all of them. Drag-and-drop support, once a hallmark of the Mac UI, is spotty at best. Even basic stuff breaks every once in a while. It's wild to consider that Apple literally wrote the book[1] on how to provide a consistent experience for an entire OS, and yet they don't seem to be able to follow it themselves anymore. [1]: http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf http://interface.free.fr/Archives/Apple_HIGuidelines.pdf

ActorNightly 4y ago
>They're putting out the best hardware ever - by a huge margin ... not really. They basically put phone processors into laptops because they realized that most people use their laptops exactly like they use their phones. The new M1/M2 machines have ever so slightly higher single core performance, comparable multi core performance, and when you run them full tilt, the battery doesn't last that long and they start thermal throttling. The only time their battery lasts long is when you use them like phones. Its a neat use case for sure, but nothing ground breaking. On top of everything, monitors are still at 60hz, external monitor support is shit especially without a dedicated hdmi port, and repairability is a joke. Apple has, is, and always will be a jewelry manufacturer.
- dt2m 4y ago
  I'm writing this comment from a 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro, which is hands down the best laptop I've ever used, also for high-performance workloads. I prefer using Mac OS but I'm not married to the OS by any means, and if it was the other way around I'd be switching to some Lenovo + Linux combo. There's no denying that ARM is a much better architecture for any device that has power constraints. Add Apple's vertical integration, and you have a winner on your hands. Granted, for desktops, x86-64 still has a lead in performance, but it's impossible to max out an Intel-powered laptop for more than 2 hours on battery power. Getting close to that level of performance, but without the horrible fan noise and burning lap is much more preferable to me. The entire Pro lineup - laptops, tablets and phones - all have 120Hz displays. I would fault them for releasing the 60Hz Studio Display, but it is literally impossible to source a 5K panel with higher refresh rates at this time of writing. External monitor support being shit - honestly not my experience, but OK - is more likely to be a byproduct of limited USB-C bandwidth, which you can work around using Thunderbolt docks or the built-in HDMI port. I will agree that Windows handles multiple monitors much better than Mac OS though.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    I'd imagine if Apple really wanted LG or somebody to manufacture a 5K 120Hz panel if they wanted. For some reason Mac OS still doesn't support MST. A $400 Steam Deck with 1 USB C port can handle multiple 1080p monitors natively with a $30 adapter but a $1200 M2 Air can't do it (even though it has 2 video out capable USB C ports) without resorting to a limited more expensive solution like DisplayLink or Airplay.
- cpressland 4y ago
  This just isn’t true. I have a full development setup on my M1 Pro 14”, VSCode, Docker running multiple instances of Postgres, Redis, and RabbitMQ. Edge with more tabs than I can shake a stick at because of my ADHD, and worst of all - Microsoft Teams. I easily get a 12-14 hour battery life on this setup, and that’s with YouTube videos also playing in the background intermittently. Back when I had the M1 Air, I had less concurrency due to memory limitations but even better battery life, these CPUs are insanely efficient. Everybody’s mileage will vary, but this is a powerhouse development machine, to suggest otherwise is silly.
Someone 4y ago
> The one thing Mac OS X got right in 2001 was consistency and predictability. Compared to earlier Mac OS, it wasn’t, by a huge margin. Mac OS X was a weird mix of NeXTSTEP and Mac OS, with inconsistent text editing (for example, it had both control-a and command-left arrow to move the cursor to the beginning of a line, working depending on what framework the app was written in, and “page up” might or might not move the selection hor is that a Windows vs Mac thing?)), file name weirdness (Mac OS allowed ‘/’ inside file names and disallowed ‘:’, for NeXTSTEP, it was the other way around. Somehow, the two had to meet on disk), different text layout engines, a desktop UI that tried to be both a file system browser and a classic Mac OS Finder and didn’t quite know whether to use filename extensions or type/creator codes, and to top it off, a Unix CLI merged in.
- dt2m 4y ago
  That's actually a great point. I was coming from Windows at that point in time and the contrast alone in UI consistency was huge. But then again, it seems like the MS mantra has always been 'anything goes' when it comes to UI. Maybe I'm just having my "old man yells at cloud" moment and I'm annoyed things are changing.

h4waii 4y ago

I wholeheartedly agree with these issues, and what order are the share options in, anyway? Alphabetical makes sense to me, and I guess so does having it in "most recently used", but I much prefer my selection targets to consistently be in the same place. I've never been an Apple user, but it seems they have slowly been getting worse in terms of "user experience" and interface consistency.

andrekandre 4y ago

from the looks of it, they are using a popover instead of a menu for... a submenu? other concerns aside, why even propose such a change ...? whats wrong with a menu on a desktop os?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

chadlavi 4y ago

It's in beta. I sure hope the author submitted feedback.