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This is by design. How can it be that newer versions of the same electric car can't simply be fitted with a new battery? Instead the whole car has to be scrap

This is by design. How can it be that newer versions of the same electric car can't simply be fitted with a new battery? Instead the whole car has to be scraped. It's no mystery of course, if you think about it from the manufacturers perspective - it all about greater sales. The environmental perspective is just another sales angle really. I'm not big on cars. I would happily drive an open source car.

josephcsible 4y ago
> How can it be that newer versions of the same electric car can't simply be fitted with a new battery? Instead the whole car has to be scraped. Which car are you thinking of? All of the EVs I know of let you replace the battery (granted, it may be an ordeal like the new Model Y with structural pack, but at least it's still possible and officially supported).
- verisimi 4y ago
  I'm believe I'm thinking of the Nissan Leaf (was a little while ago). And I'm talking about upgrading the battery, not replacing like for like. The scenario is that an old battery can only store so much charge, which limits your range. However newer versions have better batteries and therefore longer ranges. The kicker is that the better battery cannot be fitted into a perfectly functional older car. Don't forget that the functionality of older batteries decreases too, with a loss of range. So you can fork out for a very expensive battery but it is for the old version only. Feels like a lose-lose scenario (expense and poor range). Frankly the electric car economics in general don't make sense for anyone that actually needs to cover some miles - the older cars lose range and will be an expensive headache in the future, and the newer versions are way too expensive for what they do. That was my analysis anyway, when I looked into buying a second hand EV.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    > And I'm talking about upgrading the battery, not replacing like for like. It's quite rare for this to be possible in any component of anything you buy these days. Why single out EV batteries here?
    - verisimi 4y ago
      That's not true. Standard batteries can be switched in or out, and there are different types, brands, etc. I know EV batteries are bigger etc, but I think it's comparable. They are just batteries. In EVs though, replacing the battery is so expensive - thousands of pounds/dollars - it makes no sense to do it. So once the battery starts degrading after only a few years, the upgrade is incredibly expensive - essentially the cost of a car. If by doing so you could at least extend the range and see a benefit, perhaps it would make sense. And why couldn't you do it. Because its a design anti-pattern. If you stick to a certain space in the car for the same model, you could easily make this a feature. But you wouldn't if you just want to sell cars. As it is, I think these cars will have a shorter life span than non-EV cars - they will be scrapped earlier as they are not economically viable. I don't see how they not far less environmentally unfriendly than non-EVs.
rootusrootus 4y ago
My EV is going in for a new battery in a few months. Takes about a day. Are there any EVs today that can't have the battery replaced? I get that the Model Y makes it a bit harder than most, but AFAIK most of the 'skateboard' designs have relatively easy to replace battery modules.
Phlarp 4y ago
Tesla stans showing up to defend their sunk costs in the sibling replies should be some kind of internet constant. Like rule 42.

josephcsible 4y ago

> How can it be that newer versions of the same electric car can't simply be fitted with a new battery? Instead the whole car has to be scraped. Which car are you thinking of? All of the EVs I know of let you replace the battery (granted, it may be an ordeal like the new Model Y with structural pack, but at least it's still possible and officially supported).

verisimi 4y ago
I'm believe I'm thinking of the Nissan Leaf (was a little while ago). And I'm talking about upgrading the battery, not replacing like for like. The scenario is that an old battery can only store so much charge, which limits your range. However newer versions have better batteries and therefore longer ranges. The kicker is that the better battery cannot be fitted into a perfectly functional older car. Don't forget that the functionality of older batteries decreases too, with a loss of range. So you can fork out for a very expensive battery but it is for the old version only. Feels like a lose-lose scenario (expense and poor range). Frankly the electric car economics in general don't make sense for anyone that actually needs to cover some miles - the older cars lose range and will be an expensive headache in the future, and the newer versions are way too expensive for what they do. That was my analysis anyway, when I looked into buying a second hand EV.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > And I'm talking about upgrading the battery, not replacing like for like. It's quite rare for this to be possible in any component of anything you buy these days. Why single out EV batteries here?
  - verisimi 4y ago
    That's not true. Standard batteries can be switched in or out, and there are different types, brands, etc. I know EV batteries are bigger etc, but I think it's comparable. They are just batteries. In EVs though, replacing the battery is so expensive - thousands of pounds/dollars - it makes no sense to do it. So once the battery starts degrading after only a few years, the upgrade is incredibly expensive - essentially the cost of a car. If by doing so you could at least extend the range and see a benefit, perhaps it would make sense. And why couldn't you do it. Because its a design anti-pattern. If you stick to a certain space in the car for the same model, you could easily make this a feature. But you wouldn't if you just want to sell cars. As it is, I think these cars will have a shorter life span than non-EV cars - they will be scrapped earlier as they are not economically viable. I don't see how they not far less environmentally unfriendly than non-EVs.

rootusrootus 4y ago

My EV is going in for a new battery in a few months. Takes about a day. Are there any EVs today that can't have the battery replaced? I get that the Model Y makes it a bit harder than most, but AFAIK most of the 'skateboard' designs have relatively easy to replace battery modules.

Phlarp 4y ago

Tesla stans showing up to defend their sunk costs in the sibling replies should be some kind of internet constant. Like rule 42.