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> what even is the point I have yet to hear anybody actually describe what they propose to do to cool down the planet and (supposedly) make it sustainable. I

> what even is the point I have yet to hear anybody actually describe what they propose to do to cool down the planet and (supposedly) make it sustainable. I have heard a lot of people insist that we need to raise taxes and redistribute wealth to social justice causes in the name of combatting climate change, though.

michaelt 4y ago
You haven't heard people say we should burn less fossil fuel, and use more solar, wind and nuclear energy? That people should have better insulated homes? That we should fly less and eat less meat? That we should plant more trees? That large corporations exploiting externalities should be better regulated? If that's the case, you might want to read "sustainable energy without the hot air" [1] which is available free online. It's slightly dated with regards to the cost of solar panels, but a good introduction to the area IMHO. [1] https://www.withouthotair.com/ https://www.withouthotair.com/
- pfdietz 4y ago
  Be warned that is way out of date now.
kergonath 4y ago
> I have yet to hear anybody actually describe what they propose to do to cool down the planet and (supposedly) make it sustainable. Plenty of people did just that. You can start with the IPCC reports. A lot of think tanks also published reports focused on specific countries. Not knowing is not an excuse, particularly when so much noise has been made on the subject and so much information is available. > I have heard a lot of people insist that we need to raise taxes and redistribute wealth to social justice causes in the name of combatting climate change, though. We (the rest of the world) by and large do not care about your culture wars. The fact that saving the goddamn climate we rely on is somehow controversial is maddening. You collectively sound like children arguing about who started and who’s the meanest.
- commandlinefan 4y ago
  I believe that you believe that we're in imminent danger of extinction. I'm still a bit skeptical, in part because of the number of people in actual power who say they believe same thing, but then propose to "fix it" by raising taxes and then not doing anything climate related with all that new tax revenue.
  - sosborn 4y ago
    You can believe governments are inept while still believing that climate change poses a direct threat. It's not an either/or situation.
  - layer8 4y ago
    We're in imminent danger not of extinction, but of our planet becoming a much less nice place to live, also with the upheaval (social unrest, migration, wars) that is likely to come with that.
  - kergonath 4y ago
    > I believe that you believe that we're in imminent danger of extinction. I do not believe that. I believe that other species are at risk of extinction, or indeed extinct already, but I think we have enough of a technological and intellectual advantage to avoid extinction. Probably not casualties in the hundred of millions, though. > I'm still a bit skeptical, in part because of the number of people in actual power who say they believe same thing, but then propose to "fix it" by raising taxes and then not doing anything climate related with all that new tax revenue. “I am doubtful because politicians do not take it seriously” is not really sound. What your experience shows (rightly, in my opinion) is that a lot of politicians are opportunists with flexible principles, not that the situation is not serious.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > I'm still a bit skeptical, in part because of the number of people in actual power who say they believe same thing And if Roosevelt sat around waiting for all the unconvinceable to be convinced, and didn't enact lendlease, maybe UK and USSR would have fallen and US would face the Axis alone. Many Americans felt the same way about Hitler and Japan while the Holocaust was happening. It wasn't untill Perl harbour that the penny dropped.
8note 4y ago
There's good reason for that, of course. Poor people are more affected by and less able to adapt to climate change. Poor people increasing their wealth, are doing so by starting to burn fossil fuels. If you don't give an alternative, they're going to scale up their fossil fuel burning as fast as they can

michaelt 4y ago

You haven't heard people say we should burn less fossil fuel, and use more solar, wind and nuclear energy? That people should have better insulated homes? That we should fly less and eat less meat? That we should plant more trees? That large corporations exploiting externalities should be better regulated? If that's the case, you might want to read "sustainable energy without the hot air" [1] which is available free online. It's slightly dated with regards to the cost of solar panels, but a good introduction to the area IMHO. [1] https://www.withouthotair.com/ https://www.withouthotair.com/

pfdietz 4y ago
Be warned that is way out of date now.

kergonath 4y ago

> I have yet to hear anybody actually describe what they propose to do to cool down the planet and (supposedly) make it sustainable. Plenty of people did just that. You can start with the IPCC reports. A lot of think tanks also published reports focused on specific countries. Not knowing is not an excuse, particularly when so much noise has been made on the subject and so much information is available. > I have heard a lot of people insist that we need to raise taxes and redistribute wealth to social justice causes in the name of combatting climate change, though. We (the rest of the world) by and large do not care about your culture wars. The fact that saving the goddamn climate we rely on is somehow controversial is maddening. You collectively sound like children arguing about who started and who’s the meanest.

commandlinefan 4y ago
I believe that you believe that we're in imminent danger of extinction. I'm still a bit skeptical, in part because of the number of people in actual power who say they believe same thing, but then propose to "fix it" by raising taxes and then not doing anything climate related with all that new tax revenue.
- sosborn 4y ago
  You can believe governments are inept while still believing that climate change poses a direct threat. It's not an either/or situation.
- layer8 4y ago
  We're in imminent danger not of extinction, but of our planet becoming a much less nice place to live, also with the upheaval (social unrest, migration, wars) that is likely to come with that.
- kergonath 4y ago
  > I believe that you believe that we're in imminent danger of extinction. I do not believe that. I believe that other species are at risk of extinction, or indeed extinct already, but I think we have enough of a technological and intellectual advantage to avoid extinction. Probably not casualties in the hundred of millions, though. > I'm still a bit skeptical, in part because of the number of people in actual power who say they believe same thing, but then propose to "fix it" by raising taxes and then not doing anything climate related with all that new tax revenue. “I am doubtful because politicians do not take it seriously” is not really sound. What your experience shows (rightly, in my opinion) is that a lot of politicians are opportunists with flexible principles, not that the situation is not serious.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > I'm still a bit skeptical, in part because of the number of people in actual power who say they believe same thing And if Roosevelt sat around waiting for all the unconvinceable to be convinced, and didn't enact lendlease, maybe UK and USSR would have fallen and US would face the Axis alone. Many Americans felt the same way about Hitler and Japan while the Holocaust was happening. It wasn't untill Perl harbour that the penny dropped.

8note 4y ago

There's good reason for that, of course. Poor people are more affected by and less able to adapt to climate change. Poor people increasing their wealth, are doing so by starting to burn fossil fuels. If you don't give an alternative, they're going to scale up their fossil fuel burning as fast as they can