4 ms·

Are you trolling? It just requires on the order of 1x GDP to install enough renewables and storage to start reversing climate change. It is totally doable, but

by oezi 4y ago

Are you trolling? It just requires on the order of 1x GDP to install enough renewables and storage to start reversing climate change. It is totally doable, but people are just trying to skirt the costs of climate neutrality.

nspattak 4y ago
if by storage you mean batteries, are you sure that their production/usage/recycling makes up for the environmental cost of producing/recycling them? I am all in for green energy but we have to be honest and estimate well, otherwise we will simply continue as we are now (if not make matters worst)
- ben_w 4y ago
  I am certain that is the case for batteries. Recycling is always easier than digging up and processing the rocks which contain a few percent by weight of each relevant element, and they're already a net win (with regards to CO2) even if you do that.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > Recycling is always easier than digging up Easier? Most of stuff that is supposed to be recycled ends up in landfills.
- iso1631 4y ago
  A common trope is "this replacement (nuclear/wind/solar) isn't perfect so lets keep building fossil fuels" Every 1kwh produced by a windmill is 1kwh less of oil being burnt. We don't exactly have an abundance of energy at the moment, there's no excuse not to be diverting vast amounts of planetary resources into renewable production.
_y5hn 4y ago
He's not. Zero emissions today, while impossible, would not remove gases from the atmosphere in a meaningful way, also something we cannot presently accomplish. Past emissions will stay for centuries and increase heating globally for centuries to come. All the reports stop at 2050 to 2100, but none of them have any sort of peak temperature in sight. The extremes of today are only the very beginning.
Manuel_D 4y ago
And what storage mechanism are you imaging? People fail to realize that only ~300 GWh of batteries are produced each year, as compared to 60TWh daily electricity use (and about twice that much in terms of total energy use). Even attempt to install just one hour of storage capacity would require several times more storage than is produced globally. Any serious attempt at producing grid storage would lead to shortages and increases in prices. This is why plans for a renewable grid assume that some heretofore unused storage mechanism - like hydrogen storage, compressed air, or giant flywheels - will make energy storage nearly free. Because existing storage mechanisms can't be produced at scale.
ekianjo 4y ago
reversing what? I just mentioned the CO2 is already out there. How do you put the genie back in the bottle? > trolling Please don't call others for your own behavior.

by oezi 4y ago

nspattak 4y ago

if by storage you mean batteries, are you sure that their production/usage/recycling makes up for the environmental cost of producing/recycling them? I am all in for green energy but we have to be honest and estimate well, otherwise we will simply continue as we are now (if not make matters worst)

ben_w 4y ago
I am certain that is the case for batteries. Recycling is always easier than digging up and processing the rocks which contain a few percent by weight of each relevant element, and they're already a net win (with regards to CO2) even if you do that.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > Recycling is always easier than digging up Easier? Most of stuff that is supposed to be recycled ends up in landfills.
iso1631 4y ago
A common trope is "this replacement (nuclear/wind/solar) isn't perfect so lets keep building fossil fuels" Every 1kwh produced by a windmill is 1kwh less of oil being burnt. We don't exactly have an abundance of energy at the moment, there's no excuse not to be diverting vast amounts of planetary resources into renewable production.

_y5hn 4y ago

He's not. Zero emissions today, while impossible, would not remove gases from the atmosphere in a meaningful way, also something we cannot presently accomplish. Past emissions will stay for centuries and increase heating globally for centuries to come. All the reports stop at 2050 to 2100, but none of them have any sort of peak temperature in sight. The extremes of today are only the very beginning.

Manuel_D 4y ago

And what storage mechanism are you imaging? People fail to realize that only ~300 GWh of batteries are produced each year, as compared to 60TWh daily electricity use (and about twice that much in terms of total energy use). Even attempt to install just one hour of storage capacity would require several times more storage than is produced globally. Any serious attempt at producing grid storage would lead to shortages and increases in prices. This is why plans for a renewable grid assume that some heretofore unused storage mechanism - like hydrogen storage, compressed air, or giant flywheels - will make energy storage nearly free. Because existing storage mechanisms can't be produced at scale.

ekianjo 4y ago

reversing what? I just mentioned the CO2 is already out there. How do you put the genie back in the bottle? > trolling Please don't call others for your own behavior.