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> People need to stop shaming manufacturers for recalling their vehicles. 'Recall' is a really alarmist word as well. It makes it sound like they have to go ba

> People need to stop shaming manufacturers for recalling their vehicles. 'Recall' is a really alarmist word as well. It makes it sound like they have to go back to a factory or they get scrapped and you get a new one or something. Reality is it means you have to just pop into your dealer some time so they can pop off one cap and pop a new one on. You'll be there anyway for servicing every now and again. Not really the catastrophe it sounds like.

ziddoap 4y ago
>'Recall' is a really alarmist word as well That's literally what the process is called though? >A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards. [1] In this case, a piece of equipment on these Ferraris fails to meet a minimum standard, so a recall is issued. Where your association of recall = scrap the car comes from, I don't know, but issuing a recall is pretty damn standard, happens all the time, and has no bearing on what the fix for the recalled equipment/car/etc. might be. [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > That's literally what the process is called though? I didn't say it wasn't - I said it sounds a bit more alarming than it actually is. The vehicle doesn't have to go anywhere, it just has to pop into the service garage quickly.
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    I guess I'm just not understanding how the process name, which has been the process name for a long time, is "alarmist". The way you phrased it made me think you have some alternate word to use for the process of recall which is less "alarmist".
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > I guess I'm just not understanding how the process name, which has been the process name for a long time, is "alarmist". It sounds more alarming than is the case in practice. They is literally no 'recall' - you just pop in - so the word isn't even accurate if you read it literally. I'm not sure how to explain it beyond that?
    - ChrisLomont 4y ago
      The problem with using one word, "recall", for a massive range of issues, is that people mistake really small issues to be more in the middle of the range. In this case the issue is tiny, the fix is tiny. It's not like a recall where a decent number of people will die from exploding gas tanks, which also falls under the word "recall". Maybe if they added a severity, even a simple 1-5, like computer people use for vulnerabilities, or the military uses for levels of alert, or we use for storms, and so on, this would not happen. But using the correct word can be alarmist if articles, headlines, or pundits use it to scare beliefs into the middle of the possible range when it's at the low end.
    - MatthiasPortzel 4y ago
      I’m most familiar with a “recall” in the food industry, where the contaminated food is not salvageable. So my first impression upon reading the headline was that Ferrari was going to have to scrap or replace all cars made since 2005. Obviously that’s wrong, after reading the article. But I think the car industry is an exception in that it makes sense to fix the effected product. Most other products that are recalled (food, or the Galaxy Note 7, or other gadgets, for example), are not quickly fixed. In those industries (most other than automotive) a “recall” means throwing away potentially huge amounts of product. Edit: To clarify, I’m saying the title could be easily misunderstood. I understand that it is correct.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    The dictionary defines recall as "officially order (someone) to return to a place". > it just has to pop into the service garage In other words, a recall. I don't see what's alarming about this. An inconvenience at best, but chances are that you'll pop in for routine service at some point anyway.
    - throwaway4kd9b 4y ago
      I think it's more a byproduct of poor human perception of "large" numbers. "Toyota recalls 120,000 vehicles for minor problem XYZ!" zomg, 120k, that's a huge number, what a HORRIBLE thing. Boy they really screwed something up! Never mind the fact that this may span a production run of 4.7 Million vehicles over 8 years. This is less then 3% of customers affected because they all happened to use the same generic part for common function (e.g. a simple brake fluid reservoir cap). This sort of thinking has caused the word "recall" to get a bad reputation. Worse so when it's a "safety recall" which generally is the same thing, but actually tied to a part like a seatbelt, airbag, etc. Combine the negative connotations with the word safety and it just amplifies the unwarranted panic level.
      - randomdata 4y ago
        I guess I still don't see what is alarming about needing to go back to the dealership to have something fixed/replaced, even if the number of people needing to do is high. Short of them making a service call to your place (where the necessary tools may not be available), what's the alternative?
- 300bps 4y ago
  I don’t know why but: “Ferrari issues recall notice to replace brake fluid cap in nearly all cars sold since 2005” Sounds way different than: “Almost every Ferrari sold since 2005 is being recalled” The first one sounds like a common occurrence in the car industry. The second one sounds like a salmonella outbreak in frozen peas that you need to throw away the bag or return it to the store.
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    I agree that those have different tones, absolutely, and the one is much more extreme. I don't put that difference down to the word "recall" though, and I don't think "recall" is an alarmist word, as the parent does.
  - throwaway4kd9b 4y ago
    The latter sounds like a clickbait headline. Err..wait, it IS a clickbait headline.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Yes, they are aware that is the official name of the process. They’re criticizing the connotations it elicits.
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    I guess I'm questioning where the connotation comes from. I've never considered "recall" to be alarmist. It's just a process. I look at the recall notice, see what I have to do, and go from there. 95% of recalls I've been involved in are similar to this one: go to the shop, replace a $50 part, go on with my day. I just find it weird that the name of a mundane process is "alarmist". Different exposure, I guess.
    - vel0city 4y ago
      To a lot of consumers, "recall" implies the product they bought is unsafe and will end up hurting them or causing significant property damage. Think contaminated foods, car parts catching fire, faulty ignition switches causing vehicle crashes, airbag inflator shrapnel issues, etc. So when they hear $AUTOMAKER is issuing a big recall, to a lot of people it means there's something massively unsafe about those cars. Even though sometimes a recall is just replacing a cap that doesn't seal as well as it should, or an exhaust filter canister not performing as it should, or other less critical recall reasons.
      - InitialLastName 4y ago
        I would say "your brakes might fail because of a design error" is a pretty severe safety issue.
        vel0city 4y ago
        Absolutely, I agree.
- closewith 4y ago
  It's an alarmist headline rather than alarmist word. The brake fluid reservoir cap is being recalled rather than the car.
soperj 4y ago
>You'll be there anyway for servicing every now and again. I've worked at a car dealership before. Find a mechanic you trust, the car dealership will rip you off time and time again. I had to bring my car in for a recall previously, and they said right away that the brakes also needed replacing immediately. I brought it in to my mechanic instead to do it, they said I had at least another year on the back brakes, and 2 years on the front depending on how I actually drive. Ended up replacing the back after a year and a half, and am on year 3 for the front (will probably be replacing them shortly).
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > Find a mechanic you trust, the car dealership will rip you off time and time again. The dealership is doing work under warranty, so are motivated to fix things quickly and permanently. A freelance mechanic is motivated to find more things wrong and to never really fix them so you have to keep coming back.
  - barkingcat 4y ago
    This is opposite to reality. The car dealership is doing work under warranty, so they don't make any real money from you (they can put in the work/time/labour for whatever the manufacturer wanted them to fix, but that has a set margin that's determined by corporate - who for sure have counted their beans) - the real money is in upselling - getting you to do brakes while you get the warranty repair done, selling you new windshield wipers while you're there, etc. Hey while you're in for servicing, why don't we do a fuel system treatment too? it's only $50 and we'll get your car fixed for the warranty and get it to run better too! The other side for car dealership warranty repairs that I've also seen is that they get so many repairs in the shop that they can't do each one properly cause they are under pressure from corporate to do the servicing for a certain dollar amount, and they can't spend any additional labour hours/time to do it right. this happened on engine recalls, due to the complexity of an engine recall, the mechanics didn't get allotted enough time to do each one, so basically, corporate tried to shove 4 hours of work into 2 paid hours - the end result is shoddy workmanship due to the mechanics only doing 2 hours of work on a 4 hour job (so rushed, loosed bolts, parts left over, not installed correctly, etc) - there ended up being a 2nd recall on top of the first recall because it wasn't the dealer mechanic's fault - they weren't being given enough time to do each one
josephcsible 4y ago
> It makes it sound like they have to go back to a factory or they get scrapped and you get a new one or something. To be fair, that's because recalls generally do mean that for everything other than cars.
myself248 4y ago
> You'll be there anyway for servicing every now and again. Oh, no, I will not. I stay as far away from stealerships as I can, and I think the whole concept should be illegal.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > I think the whole concept should be illegal Where I am they just sell cars at the list price. They're just like any other retail.

ziddoap 4y ago

>'Recall' is a really alarmist word as well That's literally what the process is called though? >A recall is issued when a manufacturer or NHTSA determines that a vehicle, equipment, car seat, or tire creates an unreasonable safety risk or fails to meet minimum safety standards. [1] In this case, a piece of equipment on these Ferraris fails to meet a minimum standard, so a recall is issued. Where your association of recall = scrap the car comes from, I don't know, but issuing a recall is pretty damn standard, happens all the time, and has no bearing on what the fix for the recalled equipment/car/etc. might be. [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls https://www.nhtsa.gov/recalls

chrisseaton 4y ago
> That's literally what the process is called though? I didn't say it wasn't - I said it sounds a bit more alarming than it actually is. The vehicle doesn't have to go anywhere, it just has to pop into the service garage quickly.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  I guess I'm just not understanding how the process name, which has been the process name for a long time, is "alarmist". The way you phrased it made me think you have some alternate word to use for the process of recall which is less "alarmist".
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > I guess I'm just not understanding how the process name, which has been the process name for a long time, is "alarmist". It sounds more alarming than is the case in practice. They is literally no 'recall' - you just pop in - so the word isn't even accurate if you read it literally. I'm not sure how to explain it beyond that?
  - ChrisLomont 4y ago
    The problem with using one word, "recall", for a massive range of issues, is that people mistake really small issues to be more in the middle of the range. In this case the issue is tiny, the fix is tiny. It's not like a recall where a decent number of people will die from exploding gas tanks, which also falls under the word "recall". Maybe if they added a severity, even a simple 1-5, like computer people use for vulnerabilities, or the military uses for levels of alert, or we use for storms, and so on, this would not happen. But using the correct word can be alarmist if articles, headlines, or pundits use it to scare beliefs into the middle of the possible range when it's at the low end.
  - MatthiasPortzel 4y ago
    I’m most familiar with a “recall” in the food industry, where the contaminated food is not salvageable. So my first impression upon reading the headline was that Ferrari was going to have to scrap or replace all cars made since 2005. Obviously that’s wrong, after reading the article. But I think the car industry is an exception in that it makes sense to fix the effected product. Most other products that are recalled (food, or the Galaxy Note 7, or other gadgets, for example), are not quickly fixed. In those industries (most other than automotive) a “recall” means throwing away potentially huge amounts of product. Edit: To clarify, I’m saying the title could be easily misunderstood. I understand that it is correct.
- randomdata 4y ago
  The dictionary defines recall as "officially order (someone) to return to a place". > it just has to pop into the service garage In other words, a recall. I don't see what's alarming about this. An inconvenience at best, but chances are that you'll pop in for routine service at some point anyway.
  - throwaway4kd9b 4y ago
    I think it's more a byproduct of poor human perception of "large" numbers. "Toyota recalls 120,000 vehicles for minor problem XYZ!" zomg, 120k, that's a huge number, what a HORRIBLE thing. Boy they really screwed something up! Never mind the fact that this may span a production run of 4.7 Million vehicles over 8 years. This is less then 3% of customers affected because they all happened to use the same generic part for common function (e.g. a simple brake fluid reservoir cap). This sort of thinking has caused the word "recall" to get a bad reputation. Worse so when it's a "safety recall" which generally is the same thing, but actually tied to a part like a seatbelt, airbag, etc. Combine the negative connotations with the word safety and it just amplifies the unwarranted panic level.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      I guess I still don't see what is alarming about needing to go back to the dealership to have something fixed/replaced, even if the number of people needing to do is high. Short of them making a service call to your place (where the necessary tools may not be available), what's the alternative?
300bps 4y ago
I don’t know why but: “Ferrari issues recall notice to replace brake fluid cap in nearly all cars sold since 2005” Sounds way different than: “Almost every Ferrari sold since 2005 is being recalled” The first one sounds like a common occurrence in the car industry. The second one sounds like a salmonella outbreak in frozen peas that you need to throw away the bag or return it to the store.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  I agree that those have different tones, absolutely, and the one is much more extreme. I don't put that difference down to the word "recall" though, and I don't think "recall" is an alarmist word, as the parent does.
- throwaway4kd9b 4y ago
  The latter sounds like a clickbait headline. Err..wait, it IS a clickbait headline.
kube-system 4y ago
Yes, they are aware that is the official name of the process. They’re criticizing the connotations it elicits.
- ziddoap 4y ago
  I guess I'm questioning where the connotation comes from. I've never considered "recall" to be alarmist. It's just a process. I look at the recall notice, see what I have to do, and go from there. 95% of recalls I've been involved in are similar to this one: go to the shop, replace a $50 part, go on with my day. I just find it weird that the name of a mundane process is "alarmist". Different exposure, I guess.
  - vel0city 4y ago
    To a lot of consumers, "recall" implies the product they bought is unsafe and will end up hurting them or causing significant property damage. Think contaminated foods, car parts catching fire, faulty ignition switches causing vehicle crashes, airbag inflator shrapnel issues, etc. So when they hear $AUTOMAKER is issuing a big recall, to a lot of people it means there's something massively unsafe about those cars. Even though sometimes a recall is just replacing a cap that doesn't seal as well as it should, or an exhaust filter canister not performing as it should, or other less critical recall reasons.
    - InitialLastName 4y ago
      I would say "your brakes might fail because of a design error" is a pretty severe safety issue.
      - vel0city 4y ago
        Absolutely, I agree.
closewith 4y ago
It's an alarmist headline rather than alarmist word. The brake fluid reservoir cap is being recalled rather than the car.

soperj 4y ago

>You'll be there anyway for servicing every now and again. I've worked at a car dealership before. Find a mechanic you trust, the car dealership will rip you off time and time again. I had to bring my car in for a recall previously, and they said right away that the brakes also needed replacing immediately. I brought it in to my mechanic instead to do it, they said I had at least another year on the back brakes, and 2 years on the front depending on how I actually drive. Ended up replacing the back after a year and a half, and am on year 3 for the front (will probably be replacing them shortly).

chrisseaton 4y ago
> Find a mechanic you trust, the car dealership will rip you off time and time again. The dealership is doing work under warranty, so are motivated to fix things quickly and permanently. A freelance mechanic is motivated to find more things wrong and to never really fix them so you have to keep coming back.
- barkingcat 4y ago
  This is opposite to reality. The car dealership is doing work under warranty, so they don't make any real money from you (they can put in the work/time/labour for whatever the manufacturer wanted them to fix, but that has a set margin that's determined by corporate - who for sure have counted their beans) - the real money is in upselling - getting you to do brakes while you get the warranty repair done, selling you new windshield wipers while you're there, etc. Hey while you're in for servicing, why don't we do a fuel system treatment too? it's only $50 and we'll get your car fixed for the warranty and get it to run better too! The other side for car dealership warranty repairs that I've also seen is that they get so many repairs in the shop that they can't do each one properly cause they are under pressure from corporate to do the servicing for a certain dollar amount, and they can't spend any additional labour hours/time to do it right. this happened on engine recalls, due to the complexity of an engine recall, the mechanics didn't get allotted enough time to do each one, so basically, corporate tried to shove 4 hours of work into 2 paid hours - the end result is shoddy workmanship due to the mechanics only doing 2 hours of work on a 4 hour job (so rushed, loosed bolts, parts left over, not installed correctly, etc) - there ended up being a 2nd recall on top of the first recall because it wasn't the dealer mechanic's fault - they weren't being given enough time to do each one

josephcsible 4y ago

> It makes it sound like they have to go back to a factory or they get scrapped and you get a new one or something. To be fair, that's because recalls generally do mean that for everything other than cars.

myself248 4y ago

> You'll be there anyway for servicing every now and again. Oh, no, I will not. I stay as far away from stealerships as I can, and I think the whole concept should be illegal.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
chrisseaton 4y ago
> I think the whole concept should be illegal Where I am they just sell cars at the list price. They're just like any other retail.