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Russia is a completely different situation though - they invaded another country and are perpetrating genocide, which means that anything that hurts Russia shou

by trasz 4y ago

Russia is a completely different situation though - they invaded another country and are perpetrating genocide, which means that anything that hurts Russia should be a fair game. A full data leak would be even better - but sadly in this case we have Apple caring more about PR than morality. This of course ignores the strategic needs. First, it should be a priority to get as many Russians to migrate to the West, to starve the regime of manpower. Second, losing could be Putin’s eventual aim, to make sure Russia gets cut off the outside world, to make it possible for them to shape the society however they want - and in that case preserving the means of communication is even more crucial.

omniglottal 4y ago
The "different situation" you point out simply does not justify back doors. Having a purportedly valid use does nothing to cicumvent their undesirable nature and our need to eshew them entirely. This "difference" has no relevance over whether or not back doors should be tolerated in society because the reasons to have precisely none are so profound. "They" invaded, you say? All the Russian iPhone users, was it? Is it true that zero Russian owners of iPhones were supportive of Ukraine and using their iPhones to organize and communicate anti-Putin protests? And Apple is the enforcer to whom the (US) public should appeal? Yeah, that's a hard "nope".
- trasz 4y ago
  I agree about backdoors not being acceptable, but we are talking about using legitimate software update mechanisms, not backdoors. As for “not everyone is an active supporter” - governments exist to represent people. From this it naturally follows that the people should bear consequences of their governments’ actions. Its not the first Russian invasion, they had plenty of time to leave the country. Again - at this point, if something can destabilize Russia, then it’s a fair game from ethical point of view. It’s just lesser evil. But then of course there’s the strategic point of view. US approaching Russia in a surprisingly merciful and humane manner, and there are reasons for this.
funnyfacts365 4y ago

by trasz 4y ago

omniglottal 4y ago

The "different situation" you point out simply does not justify back doors. Having a purportedly valid use does nothing to cicumvent their undesirable nature and our need to eshew them entirely. This "difference" has no relevance over whether or not back doors should be tolerated in society because the reasons to have precisely none are so profound. "They" invaded, you say? All the Russian iPhone users, was it? Is it true that zero Russian owners of iPhones were supportive of Ukraine and using their iPhones to organize and communicate anti-Putin protests? And Apple is the enforcer to whom the (US) public should appeal? Yeah, that's a hard "nope".

trasz 4y ago
I agree about backdoors not being acceptable, but we are talking about using legitimate software update mechanisms, not backdoors. As for “not everyone is an active supporter” - governments exist to represent people. From this it naturally follows that the people should bear consequences of their governments’ actions. Its not the first Russian invasion, they had plenty of time to leave the country. Again - at this point, if something can destabilize Russia, then it’s a fair game from ethical point of view. It’s just lesser evil. But then of course there’s the strategic point of view. US approaching Russia in a surprisingly merciful and humane manner, and there are reasons for this.

funnyfacts365 4y ago