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I'm in my mid-30s and by now most of my friends are people I had worked with. A lot of people used to meet their future spouse at work. The friends from work ha

by bko 4y ago

I'm in my mid-30s and by now most of my friends are people I had worked with. A lot of people used to meet their future spouse at work. The friends from work have been a lot stickier than those I had made in college due to similar interest and experience and overall level of maturity. After college I was socialized at work. I got a lot of hard won lessons about how to interact with people and maintain professionalism. I couldn't imagine leaving college to just spend 8 hours a day at home in front of my computer. I fear a generation of young people growing up with wfh won't be socialized. At many jobs you have to interact with a wide variety of people. You learn about power dynamics, office politics and effective/poor leadership. You could think this stuff is BS, and maybe it is, but its important to understand. Work is also great moderator. Many young people live in a bubble and surround themselves with people exactly like them, with their same politics and beliefs. It's easier to be an activist on slack, and without the awkward looks from your colleagues, you won't realize its not being well received. At this point in my life wfh is convenient. I have dishes to do, kids to pick up, a relationship with my wife to maintain, but I still miss work from home. I'm just glad I had the chance to experience in person work when I was younger

j245 4y ago
On the point of meeting people and socialising.. Have you considered that it might be a self correcting problem ? The 2 hours you save by not commuting can be used to join a local running club. Suddenly you’re meeting a lot of new people you would have never met before.
- jraph 4y ago
  My biggest social network is indeed a choir. By far. Most of my friends are from there and many couples are forming there. It's also way bigger than any team I could be working in. Also, in my current company (many people WFH, at least partly), actually several couples formed because people meet at the seminars, at a time there is no stress related to work, in a relaxed setting. So remote work can be suitable for this too with the right ingredients. The company was not as remote as today before covid, but has been spread across two countries (mostly) for years so this is similar in this respect since the couples are mostly people from the two countries. I've also built friendships from by previous work, when I was at the office, so this is also true. I'm sure with time I'll make long lasting relationships at my current company too. We are already happy to see each others when it happens.
  - j245 4y ago
    I’m the same as you, I’ve made good relationships in office and remote. I think the social contact aspect is only an issue if you don’t understand or avail the new opportunities you have. We’ve been WFO for so long, some folks are struggling to adjust to this new reality. That’s understandable !
- atwood22 4y ago
  I hate running but I like my job so that’s not a good trade off for me.
  - j245 4y ago
    Hopefully it’s clear that running is just an example that can be replaced with any other social activities you enjoy. My point is you’re not stripped of every opportunity to socialise if you choose to go remote, and it’s entirely feasible to replace the loss of office based social interaction with some other social interaction.
    - kiawe_fire 4y ago
      Not everyone has other social activities they enjoy. Or the social activities they might enjoy, involve some skill prerequisite they don’t have, or time commitments they can’t keep. Essentially, if someone was already a social person and had existing social groups for those hobbies that the office commute interfered with, then wfh was a gift. But for those who enjoy their job, and enjoyed in-office collaboration, there is going to be a lot of effort and several prerequisites required to attempt to replace that outside the office.
      - j245 4y ago
        I’m not arguing that everyone must be WFH. I’m saying if you choose to WFH or remote you can still enjoy social activities. The “you’ll always be worse off socially if you WFH” argument isn’t valid. If your personal situation dictates that it’s impossible for you to social outside a work/office environment and that would hurt your quality of life, you should absolutely WFO. Just understand that it doesn’t apply universally and WFH and having plenty of social interaction is entirely plausible and within reach for many many people. My problem was lack of time and energy. The commute and the effort of commuting just killed any desire to seek out social activities after work. Work was not getting in the way of any specific hobby I already had. Once that constraint was removed, I could actually start figuring out what stuff I was interested in and perusing it. I was surprised how much stuff is out there once I started looking for things to do.
- bko 4y ago
  I don't know if that's realistic for most people. Sports is a good one and meeting people during intramural leagues is a good idea, but its not like these leagues conflict with work hours anyway. And its harder since working bleeds into after hours. So it's harder to step away at 5 to play a softball game when you're wfh, or at least I feel like it would be tougher since you're basically always on call. Overall the people who do these extra-curricular activities will probably continue to do so, but other people may not be any more inclined.
  - j245 4y ago
    > since you’re basically always on call. It sounds like this is the actual problem you need to address. > extra-curricular activities There is no curriculum at work. Socialising isn’t exclusive to the work place. There are ample opportunities to meet people outside of the office. It requires a small shift in our thinking because WFO is soo ingrained in us, we get confused once it’s not mandated. That doesn’t mean social contact is not easily within reach.
strikelaserclaw 4y ago
"I fear a generation of young people growing up with wfh won't be socialized. " - i mean that is a problem they will likely encounter way before even starting a career but they are adults and i'm sure there will be some companies which will mandate offices, so if they choose, they can work for those companies.
lamontcg 4y ago
I think as a society we'd do vastly better to learn how to socialize outside of work. People need to have hobbies and stuff (and they need to have enough free time outside of work to have hobbies instead of coming home and being too burned out to do anything).
Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago
Sorry, a lot of my close friends here in Canada were met at a previous company I work at, which was full remote. Yeah, with kids now I don't make many friends and it's definitely a byproduct of my new life: for friendship to form I need a family with similar ideas regarding educating kids, similar interest in hobbies, close by and with kids of similar age. It was hard with requirements when it was only me, now it's basically impossible

by bko 4y ago

j245 4y ago

On the point of meeting people and socialising.. Have you considered that it might be a self correcting problem ? The 2 hours you save by not commuting can be used to join a local running club. Suddenly you’re meeting a lot of new people you would have never met before.

jraph 4y ago
My biggest social network is indeed a choir. By far. Most of my friends are from there and many couples are forming there. It's also way bigger than any team I could be working in. Also, in my current company (many people WFH, at least partly), actually several couples formed because people meet at the seminars, at a time there is no stress related to work, in a relaxed setting. So remote work can be suitable for this too with the right ingredients. The company was not as remote as today before covid, but has been spread across two countries (mostly) for years so this is similar in this respect since the couples are mostly people from the two countries. I've also built friendships from by previous work, when I was at the office, so this is also true. I'm sure with time I'll make long lasting relationships at my current company too. We are already happy to see each others when it happens.
- j245 4y ago
  I’m the same as you, I’ve made good relationships in office and remote. I think the social contact aspect is only an issue if you don’t understand or avail the new opportunities you have. We’ve been WFO for so long, some folks are struggling to adjust to this new reality. That’s understandable !
atwood22 4y ago
I hate running but I like my job so that’s not a good trade off for me.
- j245 4y ago
  Hopefully it’s clear that running is just an example that can be replaced with any other social activities you enjoy. My point is you’re not stripped of every opportunity to socialise if you choose to go remote, and it’s entirely feasible to replace the loss of office based social interaction with some other social interaction.
  - kiawe_fire 4y ago
    Not everyone has other social activities they enjoy. Or the social activities they might enjoy, involve some skill prerequisite they don’t have, or time commitments they can’t keep. Essentially, if someone was already a social person and had existing social groups for those hobbies that the office commute interfered with, then wfh was a gift. But for those who enjoy their job, and enjoyed in-office collaboration, there is going to be a lot of effort and several prerequisites required to attempt to replace that outside the office.
    - j245 4y ago
      I’m not arguing that everyone must be WFH. I’m saying if you choose to WFH or remote you can still enjoy social activities. The “you’ll always be worse off socially if you WFH” argument isn’t valid. If your personal situation dictates that it’s impossible for you to social outside a work/office environment and that would hurt your quality of life, you should absolutely WFO. Just understand that it doesn’t apply universally and WFH and having plenty of social interaction is entirely plausible and within reach for many many people. My problem was lack of time and energy. The commute and the effort of commuting just killed any desire to seek out social activities after work. Work was not getting in the way of any specific hobby I already had. Once that constraint was removed, I could actually start figuring out what stuff I was interested in and perusing it. I was surprised how much stuff is out there once I started looking for things to do.
bko 4y ago
I don't know if that's realistic for most people. Sports is a good one and meeting people during intramural leagues is a good idea, but its not like these leagues conflict with work hours anyway. And its harder since working bleeds into after hours. So it's harder to step away at 5 to play a softball game when you're wfh, or at least I feel like it would be tougher since you're basically always on call. Overall the people who do these extra-curricular activities will probably continue to do so, but other people may not be any more inclined.
- j245 4y ago
  > since you’re basically always on call. It sounds like this is the actual problem you need to address. > extra-curricular activities There is no curriculum at work. Socialising isn’t exclusive to the work place. There are ample opportunities to meet people outside of the office. It requires a small shift in our thinking because WFO is soo ingrained in us, we get confused once it’s not mandated. That doesn’t mean social contact is not easily within reach.

strikelaserclaw 4y ago

"I fear a generation of young people growing up with wfh won't be socialized. " - i mean that is a problem they will likely encounter way before even starting a career but they are adults and i'm sure there will be some companies which will mandate offices, so if they choose, they can work for those companies.

lamontcg 4y ago

I think as a society we'd do vastly better to learn how to socialize outside of work. People need to have hobbies and stuff (and they need to have enough free time outside of work to have hobbies instead of coming home and being too burned out to do anything).

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4y ago

Sorry, a lot of my close friends here in Canada were met at a previous company I work at, which was full remote. Yeah, with kids now I don't make many friends and it's definitely a byproduct of my new life: for friendship to form I need a family with similar ideas regarding educating kids, similar interest in hobbies, close by and with kids of similar age. It was hard with requirements when it was only me, now it's basically impossible