4 ms·
Your perspective on this is distorted. We are talking about an entity that according to the treasury has laundered more than 7 Billion USD, assisted criminals
by Jamesbeam 4y ago
Your perspective on this is distorted.
We are talking about an entity that according to the treasury has laundered more than 7 Billion USD, assisted criminals and neglected complying to Anti-Money Laundering/Countering the Financing of Terrorism (AML/CFT) obligations willingly and repeatedly. Tornado Cash has repeatedly failed to impose effective controls designed to stop it from laundering funds for malicious cyber actors, regularly and without basic measures to address its risks.
This according to the treasury goes on for years since its creation, so everyone who actively contributed to the entity is considered a threat to national security and often, if you look at the sanctions list of OFAC sanctioned entities, rightfully so.
Retroactively, and to my knowledge, there is not a single investigation and OFAC sanction that got lifted by a court because the accusations themselves were wrong. And it's not like you don't have the right to appeal those sanctions. Entities and sanctioned people quite often do so, and fail.
See https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/judgments.nsf/C2B2FFF8D0E2D21985258814004F12B9/$file/21-5157-1940976.pdf https://www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/judgments.nsf/C2B2FFF... for example.
Tornado Cash is not just a foreign electronics company that stumbled into an OFAC sanction because it accidentally sold a Toaster to Kim Jong-un, so he can enjoy a crispy morning toast.
Where you are right is, that OFAC sanctions are a significant impediment to commerce because you cannot predict who will be sanctioned in the future. That's why, as a company or even individual, you need to do due diligence on who you get in business with.
If you import fruits and someone gives you 5k per box of Avocados extra to import them from Mexico to the US asap, you can bet there are not just Avocados in those boxes. You can pretend you didn't know, but if you don't want to end up in jail for providing service to a cartel, you need to make sure there are only Avocados in those boxes and the premium is for extra fast shipping.
Everyone knows that virtual currency mixers are commonly used by illicit actors to launder funds, especially those stolen during significant heists. This is at least common knowledge since the Silk Road days.
So if you contribute to such a project, that has the potential to harm your fellow citizens and contribute to financing of terrorism, without making sure it is complying to Anti-Money Laundering/Countering the Financing of Terrorism (AML/CFT) obligations one hundred percent, you can't just cry foul play and say I didn't know anything of this. Especially if you understand code and the inner workings of said project or have a direct line to the people in charge if you frequently contribute.
So, in my opinion it's more than ok if everyone who contributed to Tornado Cash and enabling it to do what it is accused of, their life should turn to sh*t immediately and everything they touch from here on. Because getting people harmed or financing terrorism or foreign state actors is not a trivial offense. Laundering virtual currency for criminals hurts real people.
- 5822130027 4y ago> So if you contribute to such a project, that has the potential to harm your fellow citizens and contribute to financing of terrorism, The currency that finances terrorists the most is the US Dollar. if you believe the biggest terrorist is the US Govt and State Department than it's your morale due to use crypto.
- analyte123 4y agoAnyone who has ever contributed to privacy or security technology should “have their life turned to shit” too under this logic. All the evil terorrist money launderers probably used VPNs or Tor too. Maybe they posted on HN, making you part of an internet terrorist club. Maybe they asked a question on StackOverflow that you answered. You’re waving around some acronym that the government made up 20 years ago to describe normal human activity (transacting without approval from a central authority) like it’s some deadly ancient sin.
- Nursie 4y agoTornado is specifically run to obscure cash flows, something which is specifically illegal. This equivocation is as saddening as it is predictable.
- crunchatized 4y ago>to obscure cash flows, something which is specifically illegal. It's only illegal under 18 U.S. Code § 1956 to conduct transactions to obscure the source of "the proceeds of some form of unlawful activity." There's no law against obscuring the sources of cash flows in general. And on an otherwise completely public blockchain, there was a major use case for obfuscating flows for the sake of user privacy.
- jcranmer 4y agoThe difference here is that a cryptocurrency mixer serves exactly one purpose: to be used to provide a financial service. You're not going to be able to plausibly argue that you didn't know what it was going to be financial service, and you're probably not going to be able to plausibly argue that you didn't know it was going to violate applicable financial regulations. When you're working on other privacy/security technologies, they have substantial enough other uses that you are plausibly able to argue that you were ignorant of its use in illegal steps.